Dana 20 problems! Need help!

B

Beach scout

Member
I recently bought a 77 Scout 2, 345v8, Dana 44's front and rear, and it needed a new transfercase, so I figured out it was a dana20 and looked around and got one used for 125 at a local Jeep club type thing. Well I put it in and filled it with gear oil(90 weight) and the next day the oil was all over the ground. I used the red/orange rtv seal instead of a gasket in-between the tranny and tcase, but it's not leaking from there at all. Its coming from thefront yoke and coming out quickly, 2qts drained in 2 days. Anyway I tried to drive it and I put the transmission(auto) and tcase in all gears and my truck won't move anywhere, but at one point while shifting from park to drive going over reverse, my truck jumped backwards about 6 inches. I dont know what's going on with it, I'm new to all this stuff and I'm learning as I go, so any advice is greatly appreciated! Thanks
 
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I'm sorry to say this, but I think you got taken on that t-case purchase. Unless you really know the history and condition of a used d20, your best bet is to approach the purchase as if you're buying a builder core, because that's usually what you wind up getting.

Now for the issues with the maintenance you performed in getting this case installed and running:

first off, you don't want to run gear oil in the t-case. Save that for your axle differentials. It will damage the soft bearings inside the t-case over time. A better choice is straight 50wt motor oil, also known as racing oil.

Next, rtv pink, blue, red, whatever with sillysnot in it is not a valid substitute for a gasket, especially in the location you applied it. Once you torque the bolts down, that sillynot gets squeezed out of position and you end up with a bunch of sillysnot boogers sloshing around with the gears and the lube. Not good. The correct paper gasket actually serves as a very thin, but necessary spacer shim between the t-case and transmission.

The fluid leak is due to a failed front output shaft seal. It needs to be replaced. But, if I were you, I'd be worried that going through the trouble of replacing that seal and doing nothing more to that case might well be the equivalent of applying lipstick to a pig. Yeah, you get the leak stopped, but that alone does nothing to get the rig moving. So the bigger issue is why the no-go. Was this happening with the previous t-case also? What's wrong with the original t-case? Why did you feel the need to replace it? Maybe your issue is with the transmission rather than the t-case. More background information is needed.
 
Thanks for the reply, and when I bought the truck the p/o was running it with absolutely no oil in the t case and the housing around the rear output shaft just exploded, and the gears were very worn down but he still was able to put the truck in drive and in 4 low and drive in onto our car trailer, so I have witnessed the truck move so I dont think it's the transmission but I could be wrong. And the reason I used the red rtv seal is because that's what whoever installed the last tcase used and I figured since they used it I could, but I'll try to find a real gasket. And can you explain more on how they could have ripped me off? I don't understand, could I possibly rebuild the tcase so I don't have to buy another one? And again thanks for the reply!
 
No oil in the t-case. Wow! What an absolute moron of a previous owner. If he was able to get it to move like you say, then the transmission is still at least somewhat functional. I wonder if his poor maintenance habits were applied to other components besides the grenaded t-case.:yikes:

I just think you overpaid is all, for a t-case that at the very least needs some attention and May very well be in failure mode, seeing as how you can't get the rig to move under power with it.

Its very difficult if not impossible to ascertain the true condition of a used t-case just by looking at the exterior. Removing the oil pan to inspect the gears May not always be practical, but its a good idea when possible. Other than that, it mostly boils down to an issue of trust and honesty between buyer and seller. Hypothetically speaking, if the item is being sold in unknown condition with no claims about functionality, that's roughly a $50 builder core in my view. He doesn't know what he's selling and you don't know what you're buying. Meaning you're buying it with the intent of tearing it down to perform a rebuild before installing in the rig. If a seller is making claims like "it came out of a rig that was drivable when pulled." that can mean a lot of different things or almost nothing. But from a known and trusted source, I might go $80 on such a unit and take a chance on stuffing it in a rig to see how it works. Maybe I still wind up yanking it for a rebuild anyway. If a seller claims "it was rebuilt just a couple years ago and works great," and if he was able to back that up with receipts, I'd go $125 to $150, because it would cost me at least that much and more in dollars and time to get my existing unit or cheap builder core up to snuff.

That's just food for thought that you can tuck away for future use or flush from your mind as you see fit. The bottom line is, you have a t-case that needs servicing. That means it must be pulled from the rig and torn down for inspection. If there is no catastrophic damage to any of the gears and/or shafts, you can then purchase a master rebuild kit from a vendor such as border parts or novak. Those kits are roughly $150, but once the rebuild is complete, you'll have a t-case that will operate like new. Or you can always take your chances on trying to source another used one.
 
It sounds like I might be rebuilding it then, and one thing I'll add, before I installed the tcase I had it on my workbench(tailgate) and I was shifting it into all the gears and the turning the yokes while looking inside it and the case seemed to be working correctly. When I shifted it into the 4low and 4 high positions then turned the rear yoke the front yoke would also spin, and when I shifted it to 2high and turned the rear yoke I could see the large gear that the gear on the back of the tranny comes to was spinning, and the front yoke was not, and in neutral when I turned the rear yoke the large gear inside was not moving, so it all looked right to me
 
And yes, the previous owner applied his "rednecking" skills to alot of things on this truck but I'm trying to hardest to do everything how it should be so I won't have more problems such as the tcase on down the road...or trail
 
Hmm, well that makes it sound a little better. Still, why wouldn't the rig move then? I don't expect you to answer that. Have you checked the transmission fluid level yet? There's a specific procedure to follow. Let me know if you aren't familiar with it, and I'll outline it for you.
 
I just checked the dipstick when it was cold and it was right at the correct level, and it was pretty clean. But if there's anything else I could do I'll give it a try
 
Yeah, there's a little more to it than that. Hopefully the rig is parked on level ground. The first step is to run the engine long enough to reach normal operating temperature, which takes 15 to 20 minutes of idling. Move the gear selector slowly and pause briefly at each gear position. Then move it back to n. Be sure the brake is set and/or wheels blocked to prevent rolling. The engine should still be idling at this point. Now go pull the dipstick. You'll probably get a reading below the full Mark. If so, keep in mind that you're needing pints rather than quarts to return the level to the full Mark. Use dexron fluid.
 
Alrigt, that sounds easy enough. But I'll be honest I don't know if it would be a good idea to run my truck for that long right now, for one the exhaust is cut off from the end of the headers(p/o) and it seems like it is idling high or something, and it is so loud it's almost deafening, but that's just because there is no exhaust, but I'm not sure about the high idle, its probably just a carb adjustment or something, I don't know, I'm still new to all this stuff, but I do know one problem leads to 3 when working on this truck
 
Yeah, that's no lie. My local Scout buds and I, known as the fat white boys, refer to that phenomenon as the mushroom effect. We discuss it often while evaluating hop-flavored libations in the shop.
I understand the situation. Just wanted you to be in the know regarding the proper procedure for checking the trans fluid level. These auto transmissions are essentially chrysler torqueflite 727 internals housed in an IH specific aluminum case. The fluid must be warm and circulating in order to get an accurate reading. That's why it's best to do it periodically following a short drive before going on a much longer drive. Hot idling - neutral - level surface - dexron fluid. Those are the important keys to remember.
 
beach Scout said:
...well I put it in and filled it with gear oil(90 weight) and the next day the oil was all over the ground. I used the red/orange rtv seal instead of a gasket in-between the tranny and tcase, but it's not leaking from there at all. Its coming from thefront yoke and coming out quickly, 2qts drained in 2 days...
Click to expand...

I'm not at home, currently. But going from memory, iirc, the fill plug on a Dana 20 is well below the level of the front output shaft.
If I'm reading your post correctly, you filled the transfer case (not overfilled it) and then it leaked out while sitting without ever running it? Would this leaked oil be red-tinged (atf contamination) at all?

Get the exhaust system in some sort of order so you can run the engine for awhile to warm up the transmission. Then you'll be able to get a better read on the atf level.
 
Well the truck we were talking about here is long gone, well in way. Its in storage untill I have time to build it. But I bought a 72 to transfer everything over to from the 77 and ive got the engine/tranny/tcase switched over,oh when I pulled the engine I tore down the tranny and theres my "no go" problem, big bearing towards the back of the tranny was in a billion shreds, dont know what happend. But I bought a used tranny from a ihonlynorth member and its in the 72 now. During all the swapping I guess I put a little hole in my radiator so im going to get a new one today, and after that ill see if everything works.
 
Assuming this is the bearing at the rear of the 4x4 adapter housing where the t-case mounts to the trans...those bearings are indeed massive, and quite hard to come by the real, quality replacement. They ain't cheap either. There are cheapo versions in circulation, but they won't give near the longevity of the correct part. The main problem with that particular bearing is the vent hole location on the housing. It is completely open to mud booger and moisture exposure! What the deuce, IH propeller heads? Did they not conceive that maybe, just possibly, perhaps somehow these rigs might could get submerged in guapo up to the floorboards at some point? A good remedy involves drilling and tapping that little vent hole for a hose barb fitting with a hose ran up into the engine bay that has an air gap loop and terminates inside an upside down catch can in case of a roll over. The whole procedure is explained in detail elsewhere by mayben.
 
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