Crazy starter noise...

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Brianm1202

New member
Hello everyone, this will be my first post since I wasn't able to find any answers in the bazillion other threads I read! I recently bought a '79 Scout II, 345 with an auto trans. To my knowledge, everything is stock or replaced with oem parts except for the carb which is an edelbrock 4 brl.

Please bare with me because I'm using this Scout to teach myself how to work on my own cars, so my tech knowledge is pretty limited. That said, here's my issue:

when I try to start the Scout in the cold weather, it tries to turn over about 3 times and then starts making this wicked mechanical, almost grinding noise. It sounds like a constipated robot or something! When it does this, it doesn't try to turn over and there's no shot of it starting. Is this a bad starter or possibly just a loose cable or wire somewhere? Or worse?
 
I'll leave this to the auto tranny experts, but my guess is the gear in the starter that shoots out is not engaging correctly with the ring gear on your flex plate in the tranny. Could be solenoid in starter going bad, or since you mention only in cold weather, your battery could be getting long in the tooth. Probably requires dropping the starter and inspecting both gears in question.
 
Could be that the bendix (starter drive gear) is getting weak. The simple things should be verified first such as battery condition, battery terminals clean and snug, wiring down at the starter solenoid not frayed or burnt, no loose connections etc. Likely the starter will need to be removed for service or replacement. If you get to that point, just know that they are quite heavy, so eat your wheaties and spinach. Be sure that the battery is unhooked before you begin the removal process. Wrench access to the bolts is sketchy, but doable. Once you have the starter out, your options are to rebuild it yourself, find a shop in your area that will rebuild it, or replace it. Be forewarned that in the case of many low cost, remanufactured items, you often get what you pay for. The quality just isn't there like it used to be. The IHPA web store which provides this forum for all of us, offers quality reman starters available for purchase. Depending on your proximity to their northern California location, shipping of such a heavy item along with the purchase price May be prohibitive. Link below:

replacement starter for IH sv engines - International Scout parts
 
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Awesome, thanks guys. I'll check the wiring and stuff, but I had a hunch the starter might just be on it's last leg.
 
Jeff campbell said:
:icon_up:don't for get the spacer ! Jeff
Click to expand...

X2
spacer in question is mounted between the starter and the hole in the block where it mounts. Some p.o. May have gotten stupefied and didn't put it in when they last replaced the starter.

How are the battery cables? If they are original or have some of the sheathing torn and showing off some of the bare copper strands, it be time to consider new cables. I been fortunate to be able to start making my own cables with 2 gauge cables.

How old is the battery? How's the condition? Is it holding charge?

If all checks out and the starter still seems to be acting up then ya just might need to bite the bullit and get a new remanufactured one
 
Ok, thanks for the heads up. Do you guys know where I can purchase just the spacer?

I already have a new starter in the mail and I'll probably replace the battery and battery cables while I'm at it, the entire setup looks pretty old.
 
You are probably jumping the gun on replacing the starter, if it only happens when its cold, chances are good that you have a bad battery or loose batter connections. I would start with cleaning all batter connections down to the starter, then try it. If it still gives the problem I would take the battery in and have it load tested at a auto parts store, normally they do it for free. Replacing a battery is a whole lot easier than changing out a starter, especially if its not the problem....
 
How cold are we talking about?

Also, look closely at the cables themselves. If they are corroding at their internal connections to lugs they should be replaced.
 
brianm1202 said:
ok, thanks for the heads up. Do you guys know where I can purchase just the spacer?

I already have a new starter in the mail and I'll probably replace the battery and battery cables while I'm at it, the entire setup looks pretty old.
Click to expand...

So are you saying that you don't have a starter spacer in place right now? I'd be shocked that the engine could even be starter cranked without the spacer in place. The gears don't mesh up right and even if it did manage to fire up, the flexplate gear teeth would be rubbing on the starter gear with each engine revolution. You can imagine the damage that would do to your ring gear teeth.
 
Trever, I was thinking the same thing about the vehicle even being able to start without it. I imagine it's still there. When I say cold, I'm talking anywhere from 0-15 degrees. The battery terminals are starting to corrode at the battery, and the battery is from sept 2008
 
It'll still start w/out spacer, but will be noisey, an yes it can do damage to starter drive & or flex-plate ring gear. Jeff
 
Brrrrrr! That's purdy friggin' cold! If the battery is a 60 month-er, its now 63 months old. A little long in the tooth.
 
But if it was something as simple as a bad battery or cables, it wouldn't make that sound, would it? It sounds exactly like teeth hitting each other but not connecting
 
Here is a pic & p/n 424 443 c1 for the spacer.
 

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  • Starter Spacer pn 424 443 C1.jpg
    Starter Spacer pn 424 443 C1.jpg
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I wasn't able to get all the way under the Scout because there's a bunch of snow on the ground and it's in my driveway, but I was able to see that there is a spacer in between the starter and the trans. So I'll just be sure to switch that over to the new one.
 
When you have a battert that wont supply the current needed, your starter will make all kinds of noise as it tries to engage.
 
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