Broken rocker!

[Nelson]

No worries, I had an excuse to buy another tool! Never a bad thing. Thanks for looking into this for me.

 

[Nelson]

Any word from the mfgr. Yet? Sorry, don't want to sound impatient but I really need to get my truck on the road, unfortunately...winter weather's here to stay, it looks like. Do you or ihon have any cleaned-up used shafts for sale? I just need something to get it running again, so I'm not too picky.

 

[Michael Mayben]

any word from the mfgr. Yet? Sorry, don't want to sound impatient but I really need to get my truck on the road, unfortunately...winter weather's here to stay, it looks like. Do you or ihon have any cleaned-up used shafts for sale? I just need something to get it running again, so I'm not too picky.

Sorry man! I thought Jeff had responded to you.

The information we discussed with the manufacturer of those shafts is not what we wanted to hear. While the methodology they are using does have merit for someone using a completely assembled rocker assembly sourced through them, it appears that doing simple parts replacement at the component level is not something the typical diy folks can do successfully. And...their methodology for doing the assembly is not something I'm enthused about either and won't be until I actually install and run one of their assemblies.

So here's what we can do...

1) put all parts associated with the subject rocker arm assembly in a box and ship it to me. I will then correctly assemble the entire unit for you making appropriate mods as needed for proper fitment including assembled "height" of the rocker stands on that reconditioned shaft.

2) I have enough parts to assemble exactly one nine-stand/welded rocker assembly here. There was a point in time when I had several sets of good pieces but we've since sold off that stuff over the last three years. I've also recently acquired two more sv engines to part out, but have not removed/inspected the rocker systems. Both are going to be nine-stand/welded units though.

So...in the interest of "customer service", I can assemble and send you one unit. The rocker shaft will be clean internally and while the parts will of course exhibit some wear pattern, I would not hesitate to use this assembly on my own stuff nor would I ever think of placing one of these units with a customer. I can assure you that this assembly will have no issues. But that does not guarantee that it will solve your problem if it's lubrication starvation-related due to the "cam bearing" issue.

Once you receive the assembly from me, then return all of your take-off parts including the parts that Jeff shipped you and I'll deal with that stuff accordingly.

All of these type parts belong to ihon but are simply stored here at my location for reconditioning. We made a used parts transfer several years ago to facilitate the ability to offer used/reconditioned items such as this to our customers on an ongoing basis as long as we can gather cores parts to use. In the case of rocker assemblies, very few of what we get in are servicable, but we can nearly always glean some good parts off the assemblies!

Again, I apologize for not getting back to you in a timely manner.

So...send me an email to:

michael@IHPartsAmerica.com

And let me know which way you wanna go. Be sure to include you ship-to address. I know I already have that logged, but just in case!

 

[Michael Mayben]

Ok nelson, I completed your rocker assembly today, I'll ship it to you tomorrow (Wednesday dec. 1) so you will see it by the weekend.

Your assembly is the one in the bottom of this pic. The one on top is a "test" unit I keep with all my tools for investigating non-oilers. I simply swap the assemblies if I find an engine that I suspect is not oiling the rocker assembly due to clogging of the rocker shaft itself.

Each of your nine rocker stands was inspected for cracks (none found) and then individually re-sized for your new rocker shaft.

All your parts got soaked in a serious parts cleaning chemical and then hand cleaned individually and inspected. I went ahead and replaced a few other of your rocker arms with ones I had that were in better condition. This assembly has not been "pre-lubed" as I do when preparing 'em to go on a fresh engine build. There is a reason for not doing the pre-lube in this case.

I'd prefer that you run the engine with no valve cover and watch to verify that each and every rocker arm oils, which means that oil will drool down the top of each rocker in that "slot" where the two halves meet. That is the way that both the pushrod pocket and the valve tip are lubricated. If you have oil flow on all eight rockers, then the rocker assembly is oiling correctly. This can take up to ten minutes or so to establish once the engine fires and goes into a stable idle as the entire rockler shaft must fill internally with oil through the feed port in the rocker stand.

I've also included four replacement pushrods for use if that situation pops up. Keep 'em on hand, those are becoming very difficult to obtain also.

 

[Nelson]

Michael - you are the man! Thank you so much for your support on this...it's much appreciated. So I get to use my shiny new rocker shaft afterall, eh? You just had to bore out the stands a bit more to get them to fit over it?

Thanks also for all the cleanup and inspection/instruction. I'll be sure to put it back in the correct way and verify that all rockers are oiling before bolting the valve cover back on. I bought some permatex thread sealant...do I just need to do a small dab on the bottom threads of each bolt? I'm wary about it globbing out when screwing down and plugging the oil hole...

Thanks also for the replacement pushrods. I will definitely keep them handy in the event that I need them now or down the road.

Can't thank you enough!! I'll let you know when they come in and if I have any other questions. Ihon (and specifically mm) is the best!

 

[Nelson]

The rocker assembly was delivered yesterday! Thanks so much! I haven't had a chance to get it installed yet, but I'll let you know how it goes when I do.

 

[Michael Mayben]

michael - you are the man! Thank you so much for your support on this...it's much appreciated. So I get to use my shiny new rocker shaft afterall, eh? You just had to bore out the stands a bit more to get them to fit over it?

Thanks also for all the cleanup and inspection/instruction. I'll be sure to put it back in the correct way and verify that all rockers are oiling before bolting the valve cover back on. I bought some permatex thread sealant...do I just need to do a small dab on the bottom threads of each bolt? I'm wary about it globbing out when screwing down and plugging the oil hole...

Thanks also for the replacement pushrods. I will definitely keep them handy in the event that I need them now or down the road.

Can't thank you enough!! I'll let you know when they come in and if I have any other questions. Ihon (and specifically mm) is the best!

Glad it made it!

I use the sealant on all the bolt threads, that's just insurance as you never know if one of the holes was drilled maybe a bit too deep. Four of 'em penetrate the intake manifold runners, that is the reason for sealing. Otherwise we'd have a severe vacuum leak, and that in turn would pull oil from the heads and create a ton of smoke continuously.

You notice that blue (or is it green) coloration on the bolt threads?? That is the "factory" special sealant along with a nylon "button" inserted in order to act as the thread seal. That is why those bolts have a particular part number assigned, other than that they are nothing special, just a simple grade 5, 5/16-18 bolt. The washer is a double thickness that helps prevent distortion and cracking of the rocker stand. So don't glob the sealer on the threads, just wipe a thin film, that is all it takes. The oil slot in the "oiler" stand is huge in comparison with the rest of the part so don't be concerned with blockage (do not allow sealant to contact the base pad on any of the stands though!!).

When you tighten those bolts, just get 'em real snug, there is no specified torque for that location and if you use the standard bolt torque table, the stands will crack!

I honed each stand individually for the best fit, you can see each is snug but movable on the shaft. Since the reconditioned shaft is a tad oversize, that makes up for the "wear" that is present in each of the rocker arms. However, that single rocker Jeff sent ya is a new one and I'm jealous of that, he must be holding a few of those back on me!

This pic shows a fresh rocker assembly mounted to the head (engine is on a stand). Because I put these together dry (and then pre-oil by using the pump driver and drill motor), I can easily watch for any oil leakage at the base of each stand (not all have oil holes). And I run it until oil appears at each rocker arm before it has a chance to wet spot everything. Once I'm certain everything is tight and oiling, then the drill motor gets cranked at wot for about 15 minutes while I slowly rotate the crankshaft by hand to allow all the spit holes to line up in an alternate fashion...takes patience to do this and then be satisfied it's going to be ok!!

 

[Nelson]

Hey michael, I totally forgot to mention that I got this installed last weekend and she is up and running again! I had some concerns about oil appearing to drool out from the base of the stands, between the head and stand (which I thought would seal pretty well despite not having a gasket, since both surfaces are machined), and was wondering if that is common? I took some video of it running so you could take a look at it and let me know what you think, but haven't had time to upload it yet. After running it for quite awhile, all of the rocker arms seemed to be getting some kind of oil, with the exception of the fourth one from the firewall (not sure if it's actuating an intake or an exhaust valve, but it'd be on the second cylinder). Not sure why, as that one is one of the closer ones to the #3 oiler hole and I would have thought it would be one of the further down rockers that took more time to get lubing properly if any. But it sounds very smooth and seems to run just fine. I'll try to get that video posted as soon as I can so you can give me your take.

Also, if I was planning on doing the same procedure for the other rocker shaft in the near future, is there going to be a shaft available for purchase at some point that won't require mayben-ization of the stands in order for it to fit?

 

[Michael Mayben]

The third rocker stand from the firewall on the passenger side is the "oiler" as you know. On the driver side that rocker assembly is simply "flopped" and the third rocker stand from the front becomes the oiler. When ya think about it...the same rocker stand on either assembly is the oiler!

That said, since some of the other rocker stands actually have oiler holes (and some don't) then if the rocker shaft is pressurizing as it should, oil can emerge from the base of some stands...but in general, it should not.

Normally, the oil stand will drool at it's base if not tightened sufficiently. There is no "torque spec" for the rocker stand bolts, if you overtighten, they will simply "compress" and even worse, will split! So I tighten those bolts with an 8" ratchet with just enough force to "feel tight"! I simply can't explain that any more accurately!

So I'd ask...put a wrench on the oiler stand bolt and tighten just another smidgen with the engine running and watch to see if that stops the drool. The slight amount of oil bypass you might see at that location is really nothing in the overall scheme of oil delivery to the valve train.

So...at this point...is that side of the engine now "quiet" when running with the valve cover removed? If so, and you can see at least some oil accumulation at each rocker, then your #4 cam bearing is at least partially functional!

I had a long discussion yesterday with a machine shop dude regarding the rocker shaft situation. Right now I don't know what we'll be doing for the future, but since we do have reconditioned rockers shafts on the shelf now that are slightly "oversize", then those will be sold only with "fitted" rocker stands on an assembly basis with a core charge. That means rocker stands and shaft custom-fitted. The customer then supplies their own rockers or we'll supply appropriate rockers when needed.

Our goal is...to have reconditioned rocker shafts that are exactly the correct dimension done for us in quantity after the first of next year, we're working on that now as I mentioned. It all comes down to the cost vs. Demand. It's possibly we will be supplying only an "assembly" that is down up to customer specs however, we should have additional info regarding this by the end of January, 2011.

So for right now...it appears that with the parts we have on hand, the "custom" fitment approach May be the only answer to this problem, the typical customer does not have the ability to custom fit this stuff and we want these parts to be plug and play as much as possible!