Bent rod

tasthree

tasthree

New member
Hello members, newbie to this site here. I'm currently resurrecting a 75 Scout with a 345 that I got from a gentleman before he passed away. He was going to scrap it :eek6: just to get rid of his stuff before he passed away. Its virtually unmolested and in very good shape. I'm glad I saved it. I got it to save it and for back up parts for my 79 diesel. He had parked it upwards of 15 years ago because he thought the auto trans was starting to slip. I did all the normal flushing and preping for a sitting engine but to be honest I ignorantly started it with out priming the oil system. After it ran for a bit it developed a loud rap/knock. So I parked it. I've never had to tear into a International gasser so I didn't know about the odd (to me) oiling system and sentitive cam bering till I found this site in my dignosis search. Now my 16yr old daughter has claimed the Scout:) and we are trying to fix it. In my trolling around of this site I found the old iron write up. So my daughter and I tore into the engine fearing my ignorance wiped the cam bearings. Upon removing the driver side valve cover we found a bent pushrod on #5 cyl. I haven't found a diagram depicting the valve layout but its the 5th rod from the front. I do have a fsm for my 79. The valvetrain was very clean to me with only a flim on it and no sludge in the head vallys. It has the nine stand with the boat style rockers. We preceded to do the oiling system priming sequence outlayed in old iron. It pumped up to 45psi immediately. While hand turning the engine as we hit the sweet spot for the oil passage way for each respective bank we quickly got very good oil flows to all the rockers . I took off the rockers and the oil rail anyway to have a look see and to clean every thing. It was also very clean with only a film on it and no sludge at all. So I'm thinking the lord was with us in that the cam bearing aren't wiped. I can push down on that valve the same amount as I can for the other unloaded valves and it snaps back into place. I pulled the lifter which came out pretty easy. I took it apart and cleaned it. It also came apart easly and had no buildup in it to speak of. So to me and my mech friend we feel that the valve and or lifter was stuck enough to bend the rod on the initial start up but then freed up. Or the rod was bent before we got it and the old man didn't know it or lied to me. Someone has had the valve covers and oil pan off before because of the rtv I can see. So I would like to solicit the experts here on what their opinion is as to the possible cause of the bent rod. I would like to make shure that I have covered every thing before we put it back togeather. Thank you.
 
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Bending intake push rods is a very common issue on these IH sv's. A couple of items that can cause it.
1) bad oiling to the top end from defects in the system.
2) bad gas in the tank and fuel lines that is like varnish. The stuff will deposit on the valve stem and guide sticking it.
3) ths fact that you didn't preoil it the first time meant that it was totally dry and probably ran for 1-2 minutes before it could oil it self.

I recommend working oil into the guides by removing the valve springs one at a time and working them by hand with plenty of oil till they are free and smooth. Before removing the springs you need to make sure the piston on the cylinder you are going to work on it at the top of its stroke so the valves won't slide in when you remove the springs.

If doing the valve working procedure is not realistic for you, just oil it up real well and make sure the gas is fresh. Fire it up and run it down the road at speed like 45-50 for a few minutes to work the oil in.
 
Thanks for the reply Robert. When we got it home after we acquired it I had noticed a gas smell. What fuel was in the tank had sloshed around while being trailered. The tank had a small hole on the side. I jacked the Scout up to angle it accordingly and put a small hose in the hole and siphoned out what gas I could. I repaired the hole and I put fresh gas whith seafoam in. I guess the dry start up and what old gas that was left in the system could have caused what you said. It ran some what ok at first start up. A little noisy but not more than I expected. It would idle but would not accelerate well. I had a look see in the carb and the accelerator pump cup seal was torn. I replaced that and started it again and the knock wouldn't go away. At first I thought it was just a lifter that needed to be pumped up. So in my thinking with my experiance with other engines I thought it May have needed a valve adjustment. That led me to search on how to do that and ultimately this site and the old iron procedure. My new rod should be here today. I feel its getting very good oil so I'm going to reinstall the rod,rockers and rail. I've been spraying penetrant down the valve shafts and working them (with springs on). I'm going to do a compression check before we put the plugs back in. We will siphon what fuel we can out of the tank. I found some non ethanol gas to put in. I read some where here (might have even been you)about putting 4cycle oil in the gas so I'll try that along with some chevron fuel treatment. I'm going to run some gunk motor flush in it then drain oil, pull pan to clean it and oil pump pick up. I'm going to make my own half valve covers so I can run,listen and watch it with the valve covers off duing this process. I'll post what the out come is. The best part is wrenching with my daughter:gringrin:
 
The recommendation probably was me but it should have been 2 stroke oil as it contains octane enhancers and stabilizers to offset the octane rating damage oil does.
The 2 stroke oil in the fuel helps the bad gas not stick things up and will oil the intake guides a bit. Don't add it to a full tank just mix up 3-5 gallons @75-1 (about 1.5 oz per gallon of gas) and run it all through or most of it in one drive interval at speed to keep the plugs hot and clean. It might make visible smoke but only barely and under high combustion temps it will mostly go away.
 
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You are correct Robert. My bad. I don't know why I typed 4cycle. I had bought 2cycle/stroke. I believe the thread had said yahama brand. I couldn't find that so I got lucas instead. I have a 2 1/2+ gallon can I was going to use. Scout's not tagged so will have to settle driving on our private gravel road. Rod didn't come in today. Parts guy said they couldn't order just one. Had to order from another parts store. Won't be here till Friday.
 
Well good news to follow up on. Finally after a saga of having to order various parts we have it running. At first it wouldn't run on its own from no fuel to carb so it needed a new fuel pump. Then after it would run on its own it was running rough. Points looked good so put new fuel filter,cap,rotor and autolite 85 plugs in and still ran rough. Was getting shocked when trying to adjust timing so had to order new bosch wires. Those cured the rough idle and no more shocking. Of course every time I figured out I needed something it would be on like Saturday evening and would have to wait till Monday to get or order the needed part. Then it would take a few days for the ordered part to come in. Had to order four times just to get the right push rod due to parts guys errors. Haven't taken it for a spin yet because I'm still running off a gas can and am going to flush the oil and change it tomorrow. Dwell and timing are set. Internals of the dist look good and vac advance appears to be advancing nicely.idle mixtures adjusted and pulling about 20-21hg. Other than one lifter still tapping slightly it sounds good and throttles up nicely.
 
The good news was short lived. I ran some engine flush in it and drained the oil last night so I could pull the pan today. Pulled the pan and found what I'm assuming is a chunk of cam bearing in the front sump of the oil pan. Looks like a engine pull and rebuild. I really don't know if anyone tried hand turning it or starting it before I got to it. I had just gotten out of the hospital and things are a bit of a blur from that time frame. But I do know I hand turned it and started it without the oiling sequence so I'm assuming my ignorance caused it. I haven't told my daughter yet but I feel really bad for her. To see the smile on her face yesterday when I let her start it up and she saw how good it was running. Now I have to break the bad news to her. She dosen't even have her driving permit yet and she was really excited about fixing this Scout up. A engine pull and rebuild is to big project for us to tackle for now. My health, other priorities, finances and the fact that winter is just around the corner and we have no garage will cause this to be parked for now. I'm a bummed father:icon_sad:. I guess I'll start researching on engine rebuilding and gathering parts in hopes we can do something next spring. The Scout's build date is 6/20/75. The odometer says 33k but is prob 133k. The stamped numbers on the tab by the fuel pump are v345a on top and below those are I think 198913. Block cast numbers near the starter are 151023 r5. Cast numbers near front engine mount on pass side are d5. It has nine stands and boat style rockers. A delco dist with seperate condenser and points. Emission sticker say 2210c carb but I haven't been able to confirm positively yet that is the carb on it. The cold compression ranged from 152 to 164psi. Before this latest news I was thinking a pertronix to replace the points. Untill I get the block and heads apart, gone thru and measured I won't know what it really needs. Got to keep cost down as much as possible with out cutting my nose off to spite my face so to speak. So besides all the usual rebuild items I was thinking at least a new cam and lifters. For my daughter I'll want it to get the best fuel milage. I know a new 2300 carb would be nice but for now I'll have to concentrate on the engine internals. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks.
 
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Sorry about the negative discovery. There's no way to know whether the brief hand turn caused the bearing damage, or if the chunk had been sitting in there for years. I wouldn't lose to much sleep beating yourself up over the minutia. It won't do any good. Do you by chance have an aftermarket wet op gauge hooked up? If so, you could use it to establish and closely monitor hot oil pressure while taking a strict "run 'er, but watch 'er" approach so that you and the kid could get a little enjoyment until you're ready to yank and crank. As long as you have steady, measurable pressure while keeping your engine revs and trip durations on a tight leash, its very likely you could baby it along for quite some time.
 
My travelette spun a cam bearing about 10 years ago, found the chunk in the pan 2 years ago and still runs like a top, but the op is low at idle. The Scout also had the same problem and ran for years before a rotten head gasket took it out.
 
Scoutboy74 and fdchappie. Thanks for the encouragement. Its just that its had to have been tough on my daughter watching me and my health the last couple of years. She's been a good girl and a trouper so I really wanted her to have some sort of reward. It just had to be that the biggest mistake that I probably made in over 36 years of wrenching had to be at this point in time and on this vehicle. She fell in love with this ol Scout at first sight. I just got done telling her about the problem. She took it fairly well. Better than me, but then again she's dosen't have to pay for it either the good news is that she will learn some about a engine rebuild and when its said and done she will have a new engine that we hope will give her a little better fuel milage. Yes I have had a mechanical oil pressure gauge hooked up to it. I have it connected to a tee before the factory sensor. Yesterday I was confused as to the different readings I was getting from it and the factory gauge. While at warm idle the mech would go down to about 10psi and the factory gauge was at nearly half Mark. I was hoping that we could run it occasionally to move it to my work area under a awning to do some body work on it here and there. I don't really want to risk ruining the cam bearing journal. The chunk is about .017 thick,about 11/16" wide and about 1 1/2" long when flattened out. Thanks
 
There is a bright side. You have great compression numbers. Bet you'll be able to get away with cam bearings, maybe a cam kit bearings and rings. Lick the glaze off of the cylinders and put it back together. Let us know what ya find and we might ba able to point you in a cheaper direction.
 
Don't feel so bad. This is kind of an obscure issue with IH sv engines and besides the piece of cam bearing could, and probably was, in the pan before you started it. Best of all you have what sounds like a wonderful daughter. It's a very special woman who appreciates scouts!!!

Fdchappie stands for fire department chaplain. With your permission I'll pray for your health.
 
Talked to a friend of mine today who is the lead mechanic at a dodge dealership. He is actually the one who gave me the lead on this Scout. He seems to feel that if the engine was out that we could remove and replace the cam bearings with out a tear down. He said the IH oiling system are similer to the old dodges. Is this feasible or pratical to try given how critical it is lining the holes up? Fdchappie. Yes she is a special person and I love her dearly. She has had a pretty good upbringing. Since kindergarten she has been picked up from school in a 71 Bronco, 67 chevelle, 79 diesel Scout and a 82 mercedes 300d. I'm old school and love it. Words can not express how I feel on your offer. I would be more than honored and deeply appreciative if you would do so for me. God bless you for your considerations. I have bleeding ulcerative colitis among other issues. I have to take strong meds just to try to control it. Now the meds are causing other problems. I just have to keep er in four wheel drive to get over these obstacles and rely on my faith. Thank you so very much sir.
 
Thanks fdchappie and back at ya. Since I've fixed the bent rod and got her running I'm closing this thread. Next spring I'll start another thread on what I'm going to do about the cam bearings. Thanks ya all.
 
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