B&M or Transgo? That is the question.

Puddle Jumper

Puddle Jumper

Member
Hey guys, hope everyone had a good Christmas. My question is B&M transkit or transgo? I have used stock transgo kits with much success in the past on GM applications. Have heard of B&M stuff but have not used any. My 79 sii 345/727/20 runs shifts fine. Just leaks like a sieve. I figure if I gotta pull it, I May as well go through it. Any thoughts?
Thanks, john
 
As far as which brand is better, probably six of one, hd of the other. The IH Parts America store sells a B&M complete transmission kit in a box, which includes the rebuild parts plus a shift re-programming kit which is highly recommended for any auto-equipped rig that will see time off-road or trailer pulling, all for $250. They wouldn't sell it if it weren't dam gud.
 
So far I've been very pleased with everything from ihon. Mayben started a thread about B&M but I haven't seen the final hashing out yet.
 
Here's my opinion regarding the shift kits...

For a complete 727 rebuild, the B&M "transmission in a box" parts kit is an outstanding value and quality. No way I can duplicate all the upgrade parts and the shift reprogramming by using any other supply chain. I wish I'd discovered that years ago, but at this point B&M no longer sells a complete, over-the-counter "built" 727 like they used to, and they still supply GM and Ford packages. Using the complete overhaul kit is a huge bargain and timesaver!!! So this allows us here at ihon to market a replacement 727 built to customer spec using the same parts used in the B&M trannys they used to market in complete form, and the actual price is no higher than a simple "stock" rebuild!!! And...B&M never built trannys for ihc-produced vehicles which as we know are different in many respects.

For only installing a "shift reprogramming" system, I would use only the transgo tf-2. Since I do both quite often, I'm really in tune with the nuances and differences and here's the real deal...

About 80% of the shift improvement systems between the two manufacturers are the same. There are only a few ways to accomplish all the benefits these systems provide for a performance transmission, no one company has any secrets, and transgo is by far the leader in this industry in providing shift improvement systems for any transmission including the very latest electronic shit that breaks on a regular basis! Transgo invented the first of the shift improvement systems for the tf727 right after it was introduced to the chrysler vehicle line and they have been doing ever since, they are considered the transmission industry standard.

B&M virtually invented the heavy-duty automatic transmission for race application by developing all kinds of products and improvements for the original "hydramatic" back around 1958, their replacement drag race transmission was known as the "B&M hydrostick" and was manually shifted. The dude that owns the transgo parent did virtually the same thing for the chrysler torqueflite/loadflite units after their introduction in the early 60's. The roots of this shit are deep!

The B&M stuff is virtually identical, but not as full-featured unless you completely teardown the trans and perform a major using all the B&M parts supplied. This is not a simple deal on a Saturday morning!!! I'm not gonna go into each of the differences and procedures, some of the B&M stuff I covered in this thread just a few weeks ago:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.co...274-Scout-II-727-output-shaft-conversion.html

B&M, like transgo, offers two so-called "shift kits". Their entry level kit is not worth installing in my opinion, but then neither is installing a transgo tf-1 kit! If you are going to upgrade the durability of the transmission, do it with the right kit, the entry level kits are a waste of time and cash I think.

The full monte transgo tf-2 can be installed without removing the transmission from the vehicle. However, performing the mod to the low/reverse servo can be tedious but it is essential!

So...that's the poop on both systems. If I'm doing a complete tranny overhaul, I now use only the B&M box sets of rebuild parts. For a shift kit only install, the transgo tf-2 is the go-to choice.
 
Thanks Mike! That's exactly what I was looking for. I probably just need a re-seal but I have no idea how much wear and tear is inside my trans. And, I hate to do hings twice when I'm going to (technically) already there. When I pull the tranny a rear main seal is also planned.
Thanks guys
have a happy new year! Don't drink and drive:hand:

mm u still in tejas?
 
puddle jumper said:
thanks Mike! That's exactly what I was looking for. I probably just need a re-seal but I have no idea how much wear and tear is inside my trans. And, I hate to do hings twice when I'm going to (technically) already there. When I pull the tranny a rear main seal is also planned.
Thanks guys
have a happy new year! Don't drink and drive:hand:

mm u still in tejas?
Click to expand...

My heart (and kids/grandkids) are always in tejas, but I live up the mckenzie valley in orygone, the weather in tejas is shit except out in the davis mountains and down around port aransas! And...we got no sales tax (and no j.o.b.s.) here in orygone!

Regarding installing any shift kit inna transmission that has been in use for many miles...I'm not a fan of doing that! I'd say the breakover point for a 727 that was rebuilt previously and then has been maintained and not abused or overheated would be 15>20k miles.

While a shift can certainly drastically improve overall tranny service life and durability, doing so on a worn unit is going to lead to problems down the line in my experience.

That is why the B&M overhaul kit inna box is so attractive, it's the absolute best quality parts you can obtain for a street/trail/trailer-dragger rig and the included shift improvement components work very well in a engineered fashion.

However...if I'm building a tranny from scratch using internal parts from sources other than B&M, then I vastly prefer the transgo tf-2.

Since you have the experience, then build a tranny from scratch and do it right!
 
Thanks again. I bought this rig for several reasons. A) the price was right. B) pound for pound its hard to find a tougher truck. Any brand.

This rig will take us up the trails in co. This year on family vac. So buiding it right, is the only option. I will call Jeff in a few weeks and get the B&M kit with the rear support brg and seals. I understand I will need the kickdown shaft sea as well. Did I miss anything? Other than maybe swepco oil?
 
puddle jumper said:
thanks again. I bought this rig for several reasons. A) the price was right. B) pound for pound its hard to find a tougher truck. Any brand.

This rig will take us up the trails in co. This year on family vac. So buiding it right, is the only option. I will call Jeff in a few weeks and get the B&M kit with the rear support brg and seals. I understand I will need the kickdown shaft sea as well. Did I miss anything? Other than maybe swepco oil?
Click to expand...

The B&M tranny kit inna box will have both seals needed for the shift tower and the kickdown lever. It will also have the front pump seal of course and a seal for the tailshaft onna chrysler that uses a slip yoke, so you will not use that seal.

A fairly complete instruction manual is included in the box, but you will need to also use either the Scout II service manual and/or the munroe book we've posted about here frequently. We'll certainly help ya with any issues that May come up when you get into this project!

As for the Scout II output shaft bearing and seals...we have that bearing custom manufactured for us exclusively by bearing tech:

welcome to bearing tech inc - home of precision bearings

As it's not an item available through any source. And it's not a hashed up non-suitable bearings with a spacer or reducer made from exhaust tubing, it is an engineered bearing solution!

The seals for use with that bearing in the tailhousing are not included in the transmission parts kits as that setup was only used in the Scout II with the d20 transfer case. That is why they are available separately as a kit.
 
Thought I'd post this here since it has to do with aftermarket supplied parts and how they can overcome oem design and engineering deficiencies.

This the electronic valve body from a chrysler 45rfe-series four/five speed slushbox, this is my personal '01 durango with 4/7l throwaway pos engine. It lost third gear over a year ago and has been sitting ever since as I hate modern throwaway shit and did not wanna deal with it.

One of our members here, wes, and his son had a scan tool so they shot it for me, but the code was simply a dam generic and has nothing to do with any real diagnostics on this obdii-powered pile of crap. Code sez..."no third gear ratio"...no shit dude!

Since this shitbox has a residual wholesale of around $8k and is just taking up space in the pasture, I decided it was time to do something, since most of it's plastic there is no scrap value and that gummint "cash for klunkers" killed the market anyway.

Some additional research pointed to an issue that all 45-series trannys have, including the new shit coming off the line today. These boxes were/are used in many chrysler products and nearly any auto-trans Jeep with v8.

The issue is...the screws that retain the accumulator plate are not properly installed at the point of manufacture, and the design of the retaining plate is shit. So after some time, the screws work their way loose, then one of the accumulator pistons blows and destroys the plate, shearing off the screws also.

So it's up to the aftermarket to develop a fix, and transgo was the first to ride to the rescue. Now other suppliers of repair/upgrade parts to the transmission industry (such as sonnax) have to fix the shit that the "factory" won't address (nor campaign/recall).

A dodge dealership's "answer" to this issue? Replace the tranny with a mopar-supplied "reman"...about a $4500 nut that is spent by consumers every day in this country for this same issue. Or...they replace the valve body assembly with a mopar "reman" to the tune of $1400.

The black apparatus on top of this valve body is the mysterious "solenoid pak" we hear so much about. That is the part the dealer tells the customer has "burnt up". The solenoid pak talks to the transmission computer which is a separate controller from the ECM for the rest of the dam pos truck.

This tranny has no bands, and no adjustments other than using a drmii scanner to reprogram it, a dealership-only tool. The aftermarket does now have scanners that will serve the purpose to an extent, but the aftermarket May not have access to the latest programming data to use with their tools.
 

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Here's the "fix" for the 45rfe (and other versions also):

the transgo "shift kit". That plate is one-third thicker and heat treated. I replaced the screws (metric of course) with new screws that are a much higher quality and they were installed with loctite and tightened as they should be. Luckily I had no stripped threads as many folks encounter, and the broken screw shank was easily extracted.

Included in this kit is a much more highly engineered accumulator piston ring set with expanders that enhances the overall tranny operation. And a "spare" accumulator spring in case one of the blowed-out items is beyond use.

The rest of the parts can only be installed once the tranny is in pieces on the bench, part of the "valve body" components that used to be in the valve body, are now located inside the case and oil pump. So to install that stuff, the trans has to go to pieces, I ain't gonna do that!

This unit also has two oil filters, a spin-on cartridge inside the trans is for the cooler system only, the primary filter is a throwaway unit enclosed inna case.

So did this "fix" fix it??? Ya dam right it did! Total cost (no labor, I work on my own shit for free) was under $200, the transgo kit is only $85. Takes a couple of hours of being hammered in test drives for the pooter to "learn" a new routine, I ain't gonna spend $125 for ten minutes work at a dam dealership to train the thing off the drmii!
 

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Depending on how hard you want it to shift and what your plans for the vehicle are should help your decision in which kit to go with. We do carry the transgo kits On our online store. Unless you're racing this thing the stage one kit is plenty firm. Obviously the transmission needs to be in tip top shape and if it isn't there are a couple writeups on our forums on how to rebuild the 727, one using the B&M rebuild kit.
 
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