another 727 thread

C

chucky

New member
I have a 79 sii, with an 350 sbc, with the remaining drive train stock. (727, d20, d44's front and rear with 3.07's). I recntly had the transmission filter and fluids replaced, without a flush, and I had requested that the mechs do a band adjustment as prescribed by mm on the sticky. I even wrote the instructions down.

After the repair the trans did behave differently. If I start off slow, pulling away the trans seems to go thru 1st and 2nd pretty quick and there are no issues. Under hard acceleration, pulling away from a stop light or merging into traffic, the trans would get out of 1st quick (about 10-15mph), then the rpms would go up and the trans would 'let go' there doesnt seem to be any pulling at all until third, then all would be normal. Sometimes under the same hard accel, when it shifts out of first into second, the whole vehicle would shudder, like going over a rumble strip at 60 and second would kinda pull. Then on into third and everything seems to work fine.

After looking underneath, the amount of grease/crap on the band adjustment stud leads me to believe it wasnt done:nono:, at least on that one. The one inside the pan -the easy one to get too- maybe. Before the visit to the garage, the trans would shift more like a manual, with definite shifts felt, and second would pull all the way to almost 2300 rpm/50 mph before deciding to move to third. Could this be one band tightened and another not, or maybe one band is toast. I have a new shifter cable coming in, so that will be the first thing towards a cure. I'll prob do-redo the band adjustment exercise as well.

Any thoughts? Should I sell a kidney :eek6: to get ready to get this thing fixed proper?

Thanks
 
The first detail that has my interest piqued is the fact that you felt it necessary to instruct the "techs/mechs" (mmm yummy tacos) as to the band adjustment procedure, a process that I would expect to be old hat for any learn-id trans repair folk, or at the least they would have their own reference materials on hand to refer to. There is nothing IH specific about this process. It is all chrysler data set forth many many moons ago, then republished in various service manuals and/or regurgitated by other folks on tech forums like this one. The only deviation from these long established standards is when shift improvement kits are installed and similar modifications are made.
The adjustment screw inside the case is for the rear band tension. The rear band is also known as the low/reverse band as those are the situations where this band is applied...either in breakaway low (selector in d, trans in first gear) or manual low (selector in l1) and also reverse. Have you noticed any different behavior in when in reverse since this service?
The adjustment screw that can be accessed from the outside of the case is the front band adjustment screw. The front band is also known as the 2nd or kickdown band. Neither band should be applied once direct drive (3rd) is reached.
Replacing the shift cable is unlikely to have any effect on the symptoms you've described.
If the techs mechs had to be instructed on setting band tension, perhaps they're also ignorant about establishing a proper atf level. Do you know how to properly check the fluid level of an unmodified tf 727? Fluid level verification is always the first place to start when symptoms pop up. These units are known to exhibit erratic behavior when the fluid level is incorrect, especially if more than a quart low. I'd be curious to know the condition of the drained fluid and also how much friction material was residing in the pan. I realize that might be difficult, if not impossible to ascertain now. That stuff can provide valuable clues as to the overall health of the unit.
It might well be that only the reverse band was adjusted and at this point, who can say that that was even done correctly? Clearly, something isn't quite right, but even by your description of how it behaved before the service, one might speculate that something wasn't quite right even then.
Maybe I'm just crazy, but in my apparently distorted way of thinking, a knowledgeable auto repair person should not have to be asked by the customer to adjust both bands...it just makes sense to do it at this time...and furthermore, as an experienced tech, I should not have to rely on the customer to provide me with the adjustment procedure. If I don't already have it committed to remembree, I have the greezy, dog-eared service literature that I can thumb through while I sip my half-caf, decaf, soy mocha-spresso.
 
Thanks scoutboy.

The mechanics who did the job (maybe) were not transmission specialists. They are more like 'lets bolt this on cause its cool' guys whose primary business are 4x4's, newer trucks with huge tires and multi link lifts to the sky. They were recommended by a friend who had his scrambler worked on there.

I had to provide instructions because when I asked to do the band adjustment along with fluids and filters, but that's was something "they normally dont do", so I wrote out how and left it to them. Part of this is my fault now that you mentioned it. Ive never read the hot idle fluid level in the trans since getting it back. I guess I left it up to the pros to fill it up to the correct spec. The invoice said 7 qts. And the young man who did the filter change was not at work when I picked it up so I didnt get a report on fluid condition, gunk in the pan, or the number of turns to seat the band adjustment screw. I do know that the fluid was a little dark, but didnt seem to smell burned. If the rain holds off today I'll drive it till hot and check the stick and see what I have.
 
I see. Kind of like having an optometrist perform a root canal. Well, I hope they were really cheap. When you check the level, be sure you are idling in neutral on a level surface also. Checking in park can show a false level. 7 quarts might be close since they didn't do a flush and probably didn't drain the converter. Some converters have drain plugs, some don't. If the converter was drained, 7 quarts might be a bit shy. Does the invoice mention what flavor of red punch they poured in?
 
Flavor of the day was (says) dexi iii. I was under the impression that they were competent mechanics. I had just bought the Scout at the end of October and drove it from nm to florida, and I wanted them to do a shake down inspection - check brakes, diff fluids, wheel bearing and steering play, and see whats causing the t-case to be so hard to shift.

I got was the trans thing, a new oil pan gasket (I'd installed one but couldnt get it to stop leaking) and a list of the 'other things' that needed attention that they could do for me. All parts swap outs that I can do without the 90/hr charge. Maybe time to dive into the deep end and try a trans rebuild. Manual gear boxes are easy enough, but slush boxes are all black magic.
 
I'm sure they are competent. Going by your description of them it seems to me that they specialize in other areas, so the more involved lof type services tend to fall a bit outside their bailiwick. There's nothing that difficult about what you asked of them and perhaps they did it just as instructed. I think though, there also is room to legitimately consider that something in your instructions May have been lost in translation. Without knowing a detailed history of this transmission, it May also be just as possible that there were issues brewing even before you had them drain the fluid. Lots of questions that unfortunately can't be answered without going back inside the belly of the beast. Btw...how did the hot fluid level check out?
 
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