Advice on ignition replacement/upgrade...

M

mikeindustries

Member
In regards to my 1976 Scout II, 304, 727, Holley 2300 , Holley distributor.

The stock distributor vacuum advance is not working. I assume its trashed inside. Scout is rough starting, and has a flat spot off idle that I figure is caused by distributor issues.

I want to get rid of the gold box for obvious reasons. So I think I will go with a pertronix setup.

I need a new distributor though. Was thinking about replacing the vacuum advance but figure the Scout could benefit from a whole new distributor.

So what are my options.
 
So guess what I'm asking is what would be the best bang for my bucks when it comes to the distributor replacement.

Stay with a Holley, go with a prestolite, ? Does it matter , after all the guts will be removed anyways for the pertronix. Is there a billet distributor on the market, I was not able to find one.
 
Best bang would be the pertronix kit. No matter which distributor you choose, that kit is by far the best bang for the price that I know of. It's ussually the first thing I do on these IH old irons.

Indeed that that gold box is problimatic at best. I currently have a prestolite dizzy in my 73 beast, with a pertronix kit. And my newest addition to my fleet, is a 72, and has a non-gold box version of another dizzy, without pertronix. Which will be upgraded soon, when I have time to accually work on it. There isn't much in the way of aftermarket support for these ole IH motors compared to the big three. I currently am not sure which of the 3 or 4 versions of dizzies, that IH used through out the years, would be better than others. Other members in here would be able to chime in more and shed more light on the subject in due time
 
Doh - I forgot about that one. Sorry Jeff. Lack of coffee and still bieng half asleep does strange things to my feable brain:yawn:
 
Not trying to dissuade you from your plans to upgrade ignition components when I say that the symptoms you've mentioned could well be fuel delivery related. You mentioned a 2300 carb, but you did not specify which list number it is, what condition it is in, or whether the choke is adjusted and functioning properly. These May be things to consider and verify as you proceed.
 
scoutboy74 said:
not trying to dissuade you from your plans to upgrade ignition components when I say that the symptoms you've mentioned could well be fuel delivery related. You mentioned a 2300 carb, but you did not specify which list number it is, what condition it is in, or whether the choke is adjusted and functioning properly. These May be things to consider and verify as you proceed.
Click to expand...

Its a brand new out of box 2300 with a manual choke. When I bought the Scout it was a bit of a barn find. I had about 500 miles put on it in 15 years. I took it over to doyles truck repair just outside portland to get it tuned up. This guy used to be a light line dealer back in the day. Anyways he tuned it up but told me the vacuum advance was not working.

My understanding is that I need to get the ignition spot on first, then deal with any other issues.

This rig is a daily driver, I put about 600 miles a week on it.

Btw, runs great after it warms up.
 
ihpartsjeff said:
we sell the performance distributors hei distributor if you want something above stock. For stock stuff we normally sell a rebuilt points type Holley distributor and then install a pertronix into it.

performance dui hei distributor for IH engine - International Scout parts
reman. Holley points distributor for IH v8 engine - International Scout parts
pertronix replacement ignitor kits - International Scout parts
Click to expand...

Will you guys set up the pertronix in the distributor? Whats the differance between the standard pertronix and the ignitor iii? I am currently running an accel super stock coil #8140, will this work with the pertronix?
 
mikeindustries said:
its a brand new out of box 2300 with a manual choke. When I bought the Scout it was a bit of a barn find. I had about 500 miles put on it in 15 years. I took it over to doyles truck repair just outside portland to get it tuned up. This guy used to be a light line dealer back in the day. Anyways he tuned it up but told me the vacuum advance was not working.

My understanding is that I need to get the ignition spot on first, then deal with any other issues.

This rig is a daily driver, I put about 600 miles a week on it.

Btw, runs great after it warms up.
Click to expand...

Okay, new carb, but which list number? You can find it stamped on the front of the airhorn. It will either be a list 0-7448 rated at 350 cfm, or list 4412 rated at 500 cfm. The smaller version works well for our applications, while the larger version usually leaves something to be desired. Since this rig is a decent daily driver, I'm assuming you have a 0-7448, but this should be confirmed. Even the correct new carb will still require at least some minor fine tweaking.
Yes, you're right about the importance of ignition being dialed in first, as it does influence fuel delivery settings to a certain extent, while a carb issue will not change where the base timing or the dwell angle has been set. An old light line guy would most likely know all the propers, but if I were on scene helping you tweak this, I would want to measure the dwell, flash a timing light, see which spark plugs you have, measure plug gap, see where the carb idle mix screws are set, and so on.
Again, I'm sure the guy is competent enough to id a faulty vac advance, but there is a very simple test you can perform to verify. Simply disconnect the vac advance line from the carb port fitting and suck on it. Then quickly place your finger over the line. If it holds vacuum, its functional. If the vacuum bleeds off, its faulty.
The gold box ignition has a bad reputation which is either well deserved or unfair depending on who you talk to. The remote amplifier portion mounted to your firewall is subject to failure after thousands of extreme heating and cooling cycles, just as any other electronic device would be in similar circumstances. Replacement units are still available, and when last I checked, surprisingly affordable, although that is subject to change.
 
scoutboy74 said:
okay, new carb, but which list number? You can find it stamped on the front of the airhorn. It will either be a list 0-7448 rated at 350 cfm, or list 4412 rated at 500 cfm. The smaller version works well for our applications, while the larger version usually leaves something to be desired. Since this rig is a decent daily driver, I'm assuming you have a 0-7448, but this should be confirmed. Even the correct new carb will still require at least some minor fine tweaking.
Yes, you're right about the importance of ignition being dialed in first, as it does influence fuel delivery settings to a certain extent, while a carb issue will not change where the base timing or the dwell angle has been set. An old light line guy would most likely know all the propers, but if I were on scene helping you tweak this, I would want to measure the dwell, flash a timing light, see which spark plugs you have, measure plug gap, see where the carb idle mix screws are set, and so on.
Again, I'm sure the guy is competent enough to id a faulty vac advance, but there is a very simple test you can perform to verify. Simply disconnect the vac advance line from the carb port fitting and suck on it. Then quickly place your finger over the line. If it holds vacuum, its functional. If the vacuum bleeds off, its faulty.
The gold box ignition has a bad reputation which is either well deserved or unfair depending on who you talk to. The remote amplifier portion mounted to your firewall is subject to failure after thousands of extreme heating and cooling cycles, just as any other electronic device would be in similar circumstances. Replacement units are still available, and when last I checked, surprisingly affordable, although that is subject to change.
Click to expand...

Sorry forgot to mention that the carb is a 0-7448. I will verify the vacuum advance in a while.
The timing is set at 10* @ 650rpm. I run 91 octane and have no pinging issues. I am running stock plugs gapped at .035. I will get the plug # in a bit too.

I tuned the carb with a vacuum gauge to achieve highest level of vacuum. Maybe I will go through it all over again today.

I also want to check for slop in dizzy too.
 
Thanks for the additional info. It does help fill in the blanks. You've obviously made considerable and proper tuning efforts thus far. The higher octane level isn't necessary or at all beneficial for these engines. Strange as it May sound, I've actually witnessed first hand a 304 engine run worse on fresh regular fuel with an octane boost product added. We then siphoned out as much of this cocktail as possible for consumption in an efi rig, added fresh, unmolested regular back into the Scout, and normal engine performance was quickly restored. I know that isn't quite the same scenario as high test fuel out of the nozzle, but it is worth pondering, along with the added price paid for no appreciable gain in performance or economy, at least in a stock sv8.
 
So in preparation of my weekly commute I went through a few things on Sunday. I tested the vacuum advance and what I found was that I could blow through the vac hose with no resistance at all. So I came to the conclusion that I basically had a huge vacuum leak. So I capped off the vacuum ports on the carburetor and the engine runs a lot better. The flat spot in the throttle is virtually gone. There isnot very much play in the distributor at all. I guess I will just order the pertronix setup for my existing Holley distributor. Still need to know if the accel super stock coil will be ok with the pertronix?
 
It has a 1.4 ohm primary resistance, which is within a couple decimal points of what a stock coil has. It should be fine.
 
Ok, so I ordered the pertronix ignitor iii. Should be here on Monday.

Question, what would be a good rpm to set the rev limitor? Was thinking around 3500.
 
There's really no need to set the rev limiter as your engine will tend to self-limit above 4 grand anyway, (can't get enough fuel and air - valves float) but if you'd like you can set yours at 4k for redundancy.
 
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