392 info

H

holtharlan

New member
Long time Scout freak first time poster on this forum. I did a search but don't think the search will pull up numbers?? Every time I put in 392 it gives me a no match and I know there are post with 392 in them. On to the questions
I hope these questions are-not to dumb, I just want to know what I am looking at.
I know there is a improved and non improved motor. Are the blocks the same? And just use freeze plugs when the water pipes go to the heads? Or are the blocks different?
As I understand it, improves cooling to the block and non to the heads
is it possible to install the wrong heads on either block?
Reason I ask - there is a 392 for sale locally that I am interested in. The history is a little sketchy - the guy purchased a 392 (I checked the factory stamp) short block and had it built , .30 over. He used a head off a 196 and found a match for the other side and had both rebuilt.
I just want to confirm all of this is correct.
What should I look for??? Thanks in advance!
 
Try searching "improved cooling". That will bring up some info for you. Not sure why "392" won't work, but I tried it myself with the same result.
 
Here's the deelio on ic vs non-ic

the coolant flow path was revised to eliminate hot spots on cylinders that among other things greatly shortened head gasket life on heavy trucks like buses and dump trucks etc.

In a Scout or pickup truck this was not an issue due to the vehicle weight.



The differences and parts that are not interchangeable are.
Block
heads
water pipes pump to block on a ic, pump to heads non ic
head gaskets


the rest of the parts are the same with respect to the engine it self.\

I'm going through this exact issue on an engine build where a guy bought a supposed runner ic 392 to rebuild. He tore it down and sent all parts out to machine shops for rebuilding before I was involved. I get the story and a truck of rebuilt parts including to reassemble and work some performance upgrades in. The heads were in bags all nicely ported and with a great flow report fully assembled. I cc'd them and stuck them back into the bags.

To make a long story short after building the short block I went to bolt the heads on and this is what I found. A big aw f**k man !!! From me and the owner.

The guy who sold the engine to my buddy new had stuck ic heads on an non ic block found out that it pissed coolant and tried to seal it up with blue silicone as we later found on the old head gaskets. We have a new block all machined up and ready to be reassembled this week end. I have both blocks and will take photos and post the visible differences on a sticky.

Head block miss match
8044d1261243425-392-info-p1010257-medium-.jpg


Ic head gasket on non ic block
8045d1261243425-392-info-p1010229-medium-.jpg
 

Attachments

  • P1010257 (Medium).JPG
    P1010257 (Medium).JPG
    59.2 KB · Views: 1,063
  • P1010229 (Medium).JPG
    P1010229 (Medium).JPG
    61.6 KB · Views: 1,064
Last edited:
That helps, a quick look for a gap between head and block will prove a mix-match.
Was there a ic or non ic for the 196? I think there is only one head for that motor. And dose it work on the 392? Or is that a no go.
 
holtharlan said:
that helps, a quick look for a gap between head and block will prove a mix-match.
Was there a ic or non ic for the 196? I think there is only one head for that motor. And dose it work on the 392? Or is that a no go.
Click to expand...

Here is what I think I know so take this with a grain of salt.

When IH changed the 392 to ic they retooled the 196 to accept the new head as they both utilize the same castings but retained the pump to head coolant path/tube for the 196.

If you look closely at the ic 392 head you will see the same grouping of ports/ plug locations as the old non ic head. On the 392 they simply install cup plugs in the un-needed head ports or install the coolant tube on a 196.

I have not experienced all vintages of 392/196 so there May be exceptions to what I wrote.
 
The second engine build described in this thread is based upon the use of an ic 196 core:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/I-h-s-t-o/1786-michaels-62-Scout-restoration-thread-2-a.html

The original 196 engine which was somewhat trashed (but is certainly buildable) was not an ic unit but came from a Scout 800 donor based upon the mounting position of the fuel pump.

The engine that michael and I built in the current incarnation is totally done as an ic since it is an ic. Since he'd already obtained a full gasket set for the non-ic motor, I simply used a 392 ic head gasket instead of the head gasket in the kit. I had a pair of new ones left over from an engine build another club member had done and he always leaves his "spares" with me for safekeeping and helping other folks.

All non-ic 392 and non-ic 196 heads are identical and interchangeable.

All ic 392 and ic 196 heads are identical and interchangeable.

Whether the welch plugs in the heads at each end are present or not (and of course the position of the "open" holes if present) is totally determined by which side of the engine the head was used on last (regarding a 392).
 
Sure do!! From a factory data sheet at that. :ihih:

all dry and dressed with standard accessories.

304 - 700#
345 - 725#
392 - 765# (non-ic) ic should be real close
 
Or, maybe creat a library of sorts and post all sorts of this kind or stuff there. Right now all we are doing is regergitating the same old stuff
 
Robert kenney said:
or, maybe creat a library of sorts and post all sorts of this kind or stuff there. Right now all we are doing is regergitating the same old stuff
Click to expand...

That is a great idea my man! But we gotta be real careful regarding copyright and crediting our sources.

Let's hit up the boss about a "tech spec" sub-forum.
 
I went and looked at the 392 today. Looks like something I can work with. It's a non ic, I pulled the valve covers everything looks clean and new. I pulled the oil pan and and everything looked good, new cam, crank was good - regrind maybe, new pistons (.30 over). The cylinder walls have a nice smooth cross hatch pattern, he has paperwork on the rebuild.
The only thing I could find out of wack is the heads are different. One has set screws that make a buldge in the casting at the top. The other side dosent have that. One head was from a 196, the other we dont know. Will that cause a problem with one side exhaust breathing differently? Other than that, the two heads look the same, and match the block (no gaps). I have heads from a ic 392 - no go on a non-ic block right?
Also this comes with a two barrel intake, I have a 4 barrel intake on a ic 392, I assume it will work - the only intakes that do not work are off the 304s right?
 
Good find.
Do you have the heads off? If so I would buzz the air injection humps off and run it. The fact of the matter is the exhaust humps will not likely make any difference that you would notice. The intake side should be the same.

You are correct ic heads no go on non ic block.

The 4bbl manifold from the ic 392 will swap.
 
The head with the "bulges" is an air injection version. The a.I.r. Ports have been plugged, a very common workaround.

If the combustion chambers are identical then there is no difference in the heads otherwise. But...those 196/392 heads (either version) are terrible about cracking between the valve seats and/or the plug bosses. Look at 'em very closely, the cracks are always visible when the chambers are cleaned.

Again...ic heads will not work on an non-ic block...and visa-versa!

4v intakes for a 345 and a 392 will interchange, some are squarebore-pattern carb flange, some are spreadbore. A 266/304 intake manifold will not work on a 345/392 whatsover due to major deck height differences.

There were many 2v 392 motors produced for buses and medium duty trucks, some with governor, some without. Some with egr, some with no egr. As for intake manifolds there is no "ic or "non-ic" intake manifold issue

heads, blocks, and water tubes...those are the parts that don't interchange between an ic and non-ic motor!
 
ok let me through this into the mix.
Do you prefer one over the other (non-ic vs ic) if you were going to put $$ into one or the other, which would it be?
I can buy this 392non-ic (cheeper than building)
or
build my 392 ic (more$)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top