196 wont stay running, gold box is bad new is worse

[esac]

I have a 1976 Scout II with a 196, it has the gold box ignition. It runs fine with great throttle response, new fuel pump, filter, and the carb was cleaned. It ran for about 7 min then just died, no restart. I waited a few min then it took right off again just to die moments later. I repeated that 5 or 6 times. When it dies it just shuts off with no sputtering, regardless of the rpm . My question is that my gold box had lost a good bit of resin out of it before I bought it. I've put two new gold boxes on it previously, and they jacked the timing so much it shot flames out the carb. So did the po have to re-time since it was going bad, or are the new boxes messed up. I plan to go put a pertronix ignitor in it, but money dictates that as a future job. I was just curious before I put the new gold box on again and hit it with the timing light.

 

[esac]

So I put the new box on again. I turned the distributor and got it running smooth, but it started dying again so I couldn't hit it with the timing light. I pulled the cap and dust cover off the dizzy to inspect the it, well no points. Now my problems evolved. I found a pertronix ignitor instruction sheet and a receipt of the installation. It said 73 Scout on the work order, and the po did own multiple scouts. My question is did they have an electronic distributor with the gold box ignition. I ask because the module is white and has two black wires, the few pertronix modules I've seen were black. Also as per the instructions it indicates a pertronix has a red and black wire.

 

[Hondo]

Not really up on the electronic gold box distributors, but have run a few pertronix ignitors. Couple of questions to help trouble shoot. 1. Did it run ok before the new fuel pump, filter, and carb clean? 2. Are you sure it's an ignition problem and not a fuel problem? If it is a pertronix ignitor, you don't need the gold box. When it dies, pull one of the plug wires off a plug end, stick a spare spark plug in the end, lay it on the block some place where its grounded, and crank the engine to see if there is any spark.

 

[1975IH200]

Your distributor is a Holley electronic unit and needs the Holley gold box connected and properly grounded to work properly.

You do not have a pertronix ignition on that engine.

Set sv-8 timing off of cylinder #8, set I-4 timing off of cylinder #1, around 5 to 10 degrees btdc is a good place to start. See how it runs there.

Adjust the carb curb idle speed as necessary to maintain idle speed of 675 to725 rpm.

Edit: the gold box unit does not Control or cause the ignition timing to change or advance etc.

Also the air gap between the distributor "cam" and the electronic pickup should be .008".
Check and adjust this if necessary, with the ignition "off".

 

[esac]

Well today I put new wires, coil, and condenser. Ran down a few wires that were not healthy looking. And it started running with out dying. With the new gold box it ran at about 25* btdc, so I got that corrected with the timing light and got it in check. I found out that the pick up is the stock unit. And I read in a prior post else where on this site where that the gold box set up uses no ballast/resistor and the coil I took off was for an external resistor. I found none along the wiring harness to the bulk head. So I used a coil that takes no external resistor. And I'll have to check the air gap. Thank for the help.

 

[Scoutboy74]

Regarding the primary coil resistance, don't get too hung up on what is, or is not printed on the exterior of a coil canister. Instead, measure the primary resistance across the coil +/- terminals with no wires connected, at room temperature (70 degs f) with a multi-meter set to measure resistance in ohms on the lowest scale. Then have an understanding about your ignition system and what is required in terms of resistance. Breaker points ignitions generally require more resistance than a coil will provide, hence the need for additional, external ballast. Most electronic ignitions do not require additional ballast. There is at least one exception. That being the crane xr-I module. But for the sake of this discussion, if you don't have points, you don't need a ballast resistor. Here's the caveat, though. The coil primary resistance still needs to be adequate for the number of engine cylinders. Four and six cylinder engines require roughly double the primary resistance of an eight cylinder. That means you need a coil with at least a 3 ohm primary resistance, even with electronic ignition. If your coil when measured has only 1.5 ohms primary resistance, then you would in fact need to add a ballast resistor that is at minimum 1.5 ohm resistance. A couple decimal points higher is no problem. Just so long as the coil by itself, or the coil plus a ballast resistor equals 3.0 ohm or slightly more. Then your 4 cylinder electronic ignition system is protected. It has to do with amperage. Volts divided by resistance equals amps. Simple formula. Four and six cylinder ignition systems should not be exposed to more than 4 amps. 12 volts power supply divided by 3 ohms resistance equals 4 amps. For an eight cylinder, 12 volts divided by 1.5 ohms equals 8 amps, which is the maximum amperage that an eight cylinder with electronic ignition system should receive.

 

[esac]

Well I'm back. I had a problem with the carb, the gasket shrunk and it started leaking. Well its a carter ball and ball, not exactly standard issue and the id tag was long gone. It took me a week plus to find a carb kit (finally found one for a 68 mopar slant 6). Then the daylight got too short. Well none the less I still can't get it running well. I found a pertronix ho-143 that came with the Scout. So I tore the distributor out to put it in, well its not it. I knew I couldn't get that lucky. Does anyone know what it fits? Their web site says its for a Holley electric distributor. So I called pertronix... Well that lead me nowhere quick.

 

[1975IH200]

According to the pertronix catalog, which is easily available online at their website: www.pertonix.com ...this ho-143 fits the 1974-1979 ihc 4 cylinder engines with Holley electronic distributors.

Your Holley gold box ignition system is what the ho-143 is intended to replace.
You do not run both the pertronix system and the gold box unit & gb pickup together.

The pertronix 9ho-143 would be a better unit.

 

[esac]

Well I think I figured it out, I made a simple task a hard task last night. I couldn't get the holes to line up for nothing. I'm kinda unimpressed that only one screw holds it in place. That leaves room for alot of movement I would think.

 

[esac]

Well the pertronix was a semi-success, it ran as long as I keep pouring gas in the carb. I'm getting no fuel now, yay... I'll think I'll be ok once I figure out the no fuel. So I'd like to thank everyone that helped.