1310 Barn Find - or - Rescued from the field.

Ok, been doing some reading up on the at545 that might be behind the t444e in those buses. A lot of people don't like them. Most of the complaints have to do with gearing, excessive slippage do to the lack of a lock up torque converter, and the high engine speed requiered to bring the fluid pressure. Not to mention all the other problems that are intrinsic to those flaws.

This is making the 5+2 manual look more attractive. One of the form posters seemed quite fond of his manual 5+2. And his post implied that the +2 is overdrive and not a two speed tear end. Is that assumption correct?

Anyhow, hopefully I will know more tomorrow, provided I get a prompt reply to my inquiries.

Its late. Time to hit the hay.
 
You make less power with propane. Now......I have seen a 392 with propane and a turbo. The truck was powerful. The dt360 in the bus that marko was talking about would be the engine to have. For one it has wet liners. The t444e engine is parent bore. Google the dt360 swapped into a Ford. The gentleman used a 4r100, had an adapter made to bolt it to the engine. To me the dt360 would be better then the t444e, for one its mechanical injected, it can be in-framed (rebuilt in the truck), and can be made to put out a lot of power. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zo9acqsjqc
 
The major concern is that the dt360 won't fit. Does anyone have dimensions for the engine? I've looked and looked and came up with nothing.
 
Dt360
44.03" long
35.63" from bottom of pan to valve cover
28.8" wide
1,200 lbs dry weight.
175 hp at 2,700 rpm
419 lb-ft torque @ 1700rpm
flywheel housing sae #2
flwheel 41" single plate clutch.

Cummins 6bt
40'' long
24.9'' wide
37.9'' tall.
There have been folks who swapped 6bt's in fullsize IH's. A dt360 could be made to fit. Its a tighter fit in a 2000 and something Ford I posted in the youtube links. You can make it work. And if you looked and came up with nothing you didn't look hard enough.
 
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It is difficult to compare the at/mt/ht series of transmissions to any of the light duty transmissions one will find in pickups.

The at series do slip a lot but they do lock up in 4th.

None of the allisons hold back on a hill llike a manual. The first time you ever head down a hill and try to take it really slow and it goes into freewheel mode at about 10 mph you sort of freak out. But at such low speeds using your service brakes will do more to hold you back than a transmission will hold you back when the engine is at idle anyway.

I am not sure exactly you mean when you say you need high engine speed to get fluid pressure. If you have real long legged rear gears it will feel as if you are driving an old mopar with fluid drive or slipping a clutch. But that is the torque convertor doing the job it was designed to do. Once you get the wheel speed up to match the engine speed it stops feeling as if you are slipping the clutch. And in something as light as a light line truck, even if a really heavy camper was on back or hitched behind, it will spool up really quickly.

In regards to gear ratios, with the torque convertor you only really need ranges. I demo'ed a bus years ago that had a dd 8v-92 and an ht748 in it. The bus had electrical gremlins which would cause it to get stuck in high gear, non-lockup. When that would happen it was if od got canceled and made for some really interesting go from stop situations. But if would do it fully loaded. Not fast or up any steep hills. But it would move from stop in high gear.

I think you are overthinking the process.

I understand you want to get the most bang for your $$$ and you only want to do this once.

But if it were me doing the job I would stay with the allison that is mated to the engine in the bus. The transmission is already built for the job at hand and it is already mated to the engine.

Be aware you can "tune" allisons. Most of them are pretty box stock because from the factory they meet the service envelope without any tinkering. But with some simple valve and governor adjustments you can make them shift very aggressively.

The only thing you need to ensure is that you have plenty of cooling available. They are not as bad as a Ford e4od for heat but they will melt down rather quickly if they get hot. But, again, if you are using a bus for a donor you will also have available the trans cooler in addition to the trans.

Good luck.
 
steve grant said:
dt360
44.03" long
35.63" from bottom of pan to valve cover
28.8" wide
1,200 lbs dry weight.
175 hp at 2,700 rpm
419 lb-ft torque @ 1700rpm
flywheel housing sae #2
flwheel 41" single plate clutch.

Cummins 6bt
40'' long
24.9'' wide
37.9'' tall.
There have been folks who swapped 6bt's in fullsize IH's. A dt360 could be made to fit. Its a tighter fit in a 2000 and something Ford I posted in the youtube links. You can make it work. And if you looked and came up with nothing you didn't look hard enough.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the information. I had found similar (character for character) measurements on another forum, diesel bomber I believe, but they were attributed to the dt466.

Also, its acceptable to correct me via citation, but polite decorum is still expected.
 
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Marko, the bit about comming up to pressure, was in reference to the fluid pressure that must be reached before the trans will shift. But as you said it can be tuned.

So all in all, the dt360 sounds like it will be more work, but with a better payoff. Hopefully that 87 ihc bus will still be waiting, or something similar, when I'm ready to buy one.
 
Scout iiss said:
thank you for the information. I had found similar (character for character) measurements on another forum, diesel bomber I believe, but they were attributed to the dt466.

Also, its acceptable to correct me via citation, but polite decorum is still expected.
Click to expand...

Sorry for not being more polite, but maybe I take you the wrong way. So I call it like I see it. Swapping in a mechanical injected engine won't be as difficult compared to a electronic injected engine. Both can be done, both have pros and cons. If using the 4r100 transmission, a stand-alone computer will have to be used. I like marko's input on the allison transmissions, they do take the grunt. I looking to buy one day a IH travelette (crewcab) using a dt360, and I like the allison transmission idea. A dt466 has be shoehorned into a Ford dt466 f150 first start in truck - youtube
 
Steve, I agree with you on the transmission. I'll have to mod the trans tunnel to make it fit, but it will handle what ever I'll throw at it.

The dt360 is also looking very attractive, as most everyone is saying its a solid engine with loads of potential. Also, the tape measure says it will fit; barely.
 
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