1210 Hard Starting and other problems..?

S

ssccrab

New member
Have been doing my research on this topic for days, watching videos and reading threads here and elsewhere, but I think I need some help. 1973 1210 V8 345 with a Holley 2300/List 6394 Carb. Pickup seems to be starting hard to where I have to pump the gas pedal a few times as the key is turned. Also have to pump gas after it's started to get it to a smooth idle. After idling a bit and selecting Reverse or Drive, it seems to take a few seconds to get into gear. At first press of the pedal once it's in gear, the carb is hesitating. Things I've done recently:

*New brake master cylinder with freshly bled brakes
*All fresh gasoline in tanks
*Rebuilt carb with gasket kit (Napa)
*Cleaned carb inside & out
*Checked Accelerator Pump clearance, looks fine
*Checked idle screw adjustment
*Checked choke adjustment with throttle open slightly, moved choke until flap just closes
*New fast idle cam (haven't adjusted the cam idle screw)
*Adjusted float until gas is just under sight glass

Don't really know what else to do except tear down the carb again, clean, make adjustments, and reinstall. Any ideas or advice is appreciated. Thank you!
 
Have you visually verified that the accel pump is providing a proper pump shot of fuel right as the throttle linkage is blipped? You should see two solid squirts/streams, not dribbles. Have you checked for vacuum leaks? Do you have a vacuum gauge? Can you be more specific about some of your "checks"? A "check" can mean different things to different people. On one end of the spectrum, it can mean, "Yep, uh-huh, uh-huh, I looked at it. It's there. Looks good." On the other end of the spectrum it can mean, "I set both A/F mixture screws to an equal X.x number of turns out from seated after seeing lean best idle according to the vacuum gauge connected to manifold vacuum with the fully warmed engine idling @ 725 rpms."

The fast idle setting is an important aspect of the choke system during your initial cold start and warm up process. The increased engine speed while the choke is applied helps keep the cold engine from stumbling and stalling before it has warmed enough to hit curb idle with no choke applied.

I'm not familiar with the NAPA carb kit. The advice I was given many years ago, is the same advice I've passed along to others over the years. That being to use Holley brand kits for Holley carbs. Maybe something there. Maybe not.

When you say you cleaned the carb inside and out, can you be more specific about the steps and effort you undertook there? Carbs have many tiny orifices that can really only best be reached and cleaned using an ultrasonic dip process. How's the throttle shaft on it? Often times, these old carbs that have been in service for so long have throttle shafts with too much play in them, which creates an internal vacuum leak and a raw fuel leak as well.

What's the history on this rig to you? Has it ever driven well for you, or is it something you're bringing back from the grave, like a barn find etc? You could have a transmission issue in addition to your fuel delivery issue. But, before embarking down that path, you do need to have your engine tune fully squared away. So your focus should remain on getting your engine to start and run well first. Then if your trans engagement is still wonky even with the engine purring like a swiss sewing knife, you'll know without a doubt that something is amiss with the slushbox.
 
Have a look at this sticky I posted on the 2300 pilot jet cleaning. Click the link for the entire write up.

Holley 2300/41xx Idle Circuit Restoration

This is is an often overlooked area to clean on the 2 and 4 bbl Holley 2300 and 4150 carburetors.. The idle/pilot jet serves to provide metered fuel to the idle mixture screws and more importantly the low speed transition slots that are uncovered by the throttle plates at the initial...
forums.ihpartsamerica.com

Accelerator pump setting can be finicky, if all else fails, I set them net (no clearance) or even a tiny bit preloaded. That seems to solve the slight hesitation if present.
 
Last edited:
Hey guys, a little update. I took off the carb and cleaned it out again and reset every adjustment screw on it. Made sure the advance was just barely rubbing, set the choke right, and backed off the fast idle cam screw. Got the pickup warmed up and took it for a test drive (I live in the country and test drive on back roads next to home.) At first it stumbled, but after driving a little bit, it stopped and the engine ran like normal and no stumbling occurred when pressing the pedal! At this point, I need to set the fast idle screw back to normal and the idle cam screw back in. Now I've got a completely new problem:

When test driving, it didn't seem to want to go above 30 mph and transmission eventually stopped responding to the gas pedal. I was able to get it home (I'm close enough that I could walk to my shop and grab my tractor if I have to.) Got to looking, and I had a major loss in oil from the trans but can't seem to pin point where it came from because everything is coated in oil anyway (engine oil is at the full mark.) On top of that, I have no idea which screw is the drain and which is the fill on the trans. There's just a pan on the bottom that bolts on. Here's a pic. If you gentlemen could be kind enough to point to the direction of the drain, I'd appreciate it. If I have to pull the transmission down, I will, but if I can prevent that, I'd rather. Thank you for your help!

EDIT: I understand now how to drain this transmission and fill it up after some light research on 727 trannys. My assumption is that the clutch is slipping badly and needs to be changed or bands need to be tightened.
 

Attachments

  • IMG-7475.jpg
    IMG-7475.jpg
    162.2 KB · Views: 134
Last edited:
That is quite possibly the grungiest, hoogey-shpoogiest Torqueflite I've ever seen! Unless the pan has been modified by a previous owner, there is no drain plug from factory. To drain them, you position a suitable trough under the pan and remove the pan bolts, leaving one at each corner loosely installed to keep the pan from falling into your trough all of a sudden. The pans are typically fused to the bottom of the case by time and mung, so some light taps with a soft faced persuader is often required to break the seal. Resist the urge to insert and pry apart with a screw driver or chisel. You don't want to damage the gasket mating surface.
Chances are good that this unit is sick, tired and in need of a stem to stern overhaul. I am perhaps jumping to conclusions a little there, but time and experience will do that to a guy when he's played with these things for awhile. If it looks half as nasty on the inside as it does on the outside though, she's toast. The clutch packs are comprised of several thin disks with friction material on both surfaces. When that friction material is gone, that's it. There is no adjusting them in midstream. There's a series of spacer shims in place within the packs to set the initial clearances during bench assembly. Then the clutches just wear down from there until it's rebuild time.
Here's how I'd proceed if it were me in your shoes...I'd go ahead and drop the pan and make good note of color and smell of the ATF. I'd probably take a few good pictures of the inside of the pan bottom and also up into the innards of the exposed case bottom and post them here for posterior. If the fluid is blackish and smells burnt, then it's one hundred percent, zero doubt, time to drop the whole unit for bench service. If on the other hand the fluid color is still pretty sharp red and still smells like fluid should with very little sludge in the pan and no kibbles and bits laying in the pan, then you might...and I don't want to blow smoke up your skirt needlessly here...might on a slim chance with "ol' none" waving howdy at you...be able to skate by for a little while with band adjustments, new filter and fresh ATF. Don't go holding your breath there for too long though.
 
Scoutboy74 said:
That is quite possibly the grungiest, hoogey-shpoogiest Torqueflite I've ever seen! Unless the pan has been modified by a previous owner, there is no drain plug from factory. To drain them, you position a suitable trough under the pan and remove the pan bolts, leaving one at each corner loosely installed to keep the pan from falling into your trough all of a sudden. The pans are typically fused to the bottom of the case by time and mung, so some light taps with a soft faced persuader is often required to break the seal. Resist the urge to insert and pry apart with a screw driver or chisel. You don't want to damage the gasket mating surface.
Chances are good that this unit is sick, tired and in need of a stem to stern overhaul. I am perhaps jumping to conclusions a little there, but time and experience will do that to a guy when he's played with these things for awhile. If it looks half as nasty on the inside as it does on the outside though, she's toast. The clutch packs are comprised of several thin disks with friction material on both surfaces. When that friction material is gone, that's it. There is no adjusting them in midstream. There's a series of spacer shims in place within the packs to set the initial clearances during bench assembly. Then the clutches just wear down from there until it's rebuild time.
Here's how I'd proceed if it were me in your shoes...I'd go ahead and drop the pan and make good note of color and smell of the ATF. I'd probably take a few good pictures of the inside of the pan bottom and also up into the innards of the exposed case bottom and post them here for posterior. If the fluid is blackish and smells burnt, then it's one hundred percent, zero doubt, time to drop the whole unit for bench service. If on the other hand the fluid color is still pretty sharp red and still smells like fluid should with very little sludge in the pan and no kibbles and bits laying in the pan, then you might...and I don't want to blow smoke up your skirt needlessly here...might on a slim chance with "ol' none" waving howdy at you...be able to skate by for a little while with band adjustments, new filter and fresh ATF. Don't go holding your breath there for too long though.
Click to expand...


Thank you for your thorough reply! Here's what I've got:

This isn't my pickup by the way, it's a family members I'm working on. It sat for probably 5 years or so. I finally got the carb all squared away and got it to stop acting finicky. Can't see much inside with the valve body in the way, but I'm thinking I need to just pull it down. There was maybe a half a quart of oil left in it, smelled like it had been in a furnace. Lots of flakes in the pan, makes it look a little like metallic paint. My belief is the seals are gone and need to be replaced. I do have a brand new filter and pan gaskets in the box from O'Reilly. Where's the best place to get a rebuild kit?
 

Attachments

  • IMG_7489.jpg
    IMG_7489.jpg
    143 KB · Views: 140
  • IMG_7499.jpg
    IMG_7499.jpg
    168.5 KB · Views: 144
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top