Coil issues?

R

Richard

Member
77 SII, 345, 2210 2bbl, T19 four-speed, D20 TC, D44's front and back, Pertronix II, MSD 8.5 Super Conductor plug wires (I am told that these plug wires are RFI wires). The engine has been about 7,000 miles since rebuild this time last year. What seemed to be a carb issue caused me to have the carb rebuilt, ran fine for a few months, then would get harder to start. I replaced the carb with a spare 2210 2bbl., ran fine, then would get progressively hard to start (again). My problem is that I have gone through four coils in the span of one year. Can't seem to figure out what the problem is. My latest problem is that my SII is hard to start in the morning, but if I spray some starting fluid into the air horn, it starts right up and runs just fine. this has been like that the last two months or so and it was getting progressively worse, but the starting fluid would start it right up. My first inclination was that the 2bbl carb was going bad (rebuilt earlier this year). I pulled the plugs just to see their condition (before the August change) and I see that the plugs are dark, not oily, or carboned, just very dark. This tells me that they are not burning the fuel well efficiently enough. IN August I replaced the rotor, disto cap, coil, plug wires, plugs, new Pertronix II.

Yesterday, my son called me and said that the SII just died on the freeway. had to get towed home.
Now the truck wouldn't even start with starting fluid so I thought I'd check the coil: no juice to the disto, but it was getting 12+ volts to the + post. I pulled off the disto cap and found that the rotor fell apart (DUH). I have no clue how that happened as it is a new rotor. I replaced the rotor and I still had no juice going to the disto, so I changed coils ( a spare used one) and BOOM, started right up. I can't figure out what the problem is with the coils. Is it the coils are just plain bad (stock coils)? is there some issue with voltage (to and from the coil)?
 
A '77 SII would have had a "gold box" electronic ignition as the factory spark make it happener, which would have also needed a full 12 volts to the coil, same as your P-tron module. If someone had retrofitted a breaker points distributor into the engine prior to the P-tron being installed, or if the engine was swapped in from an earlier year donor vehicle, that could explain a possibility of there being a resistor wire or ballast resistor in place to reduce voltage to the coil to protect the points from burning up. Such a resistor could cause issues with the P-tron module. Obviously I don't know enough of the backstory of your Scout to know how original it is nor what has and has not been swapped out over the years. Perhaps you can fill in some more blanks. As an aside, I'm no fan of the 2210 carb. I think they are by and large junk and not worth the trouble of refreshing. Replacement being the best option there. That is my opinion. One shared by many, but not all.
 
good day Scoutboy:

My 77 SII was originally a 4 cyl, 3speed when I bought it 25 years ago from the original owner ($700). I had ditched the gold box for a P-Tron I a while back, and it ran just fine. Fast forward, my son wanted a V8 and I had a spare (77 SSII), also with a gold box that I swapped for a P-Tron I inside a Prestolite disto (spare). When I had the P-Tron/Prestolite in the SSII, it ran just fine for about 15 years. WE had crashed the SSII, so I had the V8 on an engine stand in my garage for about 6 yrs. Last year in August, my son wanted to swap out the 4banger in the SII for the V8, we did. WE had it rebuilt since it had about 350,000 miles on it, I had the P-Tron/Prestolite attached and I figured that if it ran fine in the SSII, it would be fine in the SII. It ran just fine for a while, then I started having what I thought was carb issues. I swapped out the 2210 for another one that I had, ran fine for a while then the same problem. Hence, my post above. I installed a P-Tron II about three months ago but left the original coil in. I was not paying attention the to coil and/or the "ohms" thing. Still, I thought it was a carb issue because if I sprayed starting fluid, BOOM, it would start right up. I finally found out that the coil needs to be changed (1.5 ohms for a P-Tron I vs. a .6 ohms for a P-Tron II). this seems to help with the starting. according to the folks at Pertronix, I also opened the plug gap to .040 instead of .035. I changed the timing to 10 degrees vs. 13. the 77 SII seems to be ok right now and I am just driving around town for about 500 miles, I will then recheck the disto cap and rotor for "wear and tear".

two questions: everyone keeps referring to a "resistor wire". The only wires going to the distributor are the two original wires that were on the V8 from the beginning. There is no ballast resistor/resistor wire that I know of, or am I missing something here? or is one of the two wires a "resistor wire? please advise.

2nd question: what would be a good replacement 2bbl. carb for the V8? I keep reading a 350 CFM would be sufficient, but I would like to find a carb that is somewhat of a direct bolt-in/hookup re: vacuum lines. Please advise.

I have a spread bore intake (spare) that I have been playing with, and my son kinda wants the 4bbl on the SII. Looking at that as an option as well. I want to keep the 2bbl. if I can (2210 problems or a replacement).

3rd question: I am having a real hard time understanding this "ohms" thing re: coils. If someone would draw/explain to me, I WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE IT BECAUSE IT IS DRIVING ME F'ING NUTS!!!!!

Thanks for your help,

Richard
 
on the idea of a 4bbl---- ask your self and son why do you want a 4bbl ? in high school i had to have a 4bbl on my scout to, this was 1996, i spent half a year searching for a intake, finally found one got it all installed, and to my disappointment no real power gain from 2bbl to 4bbl. now 25 years later, same scout, i wish i had kept my 2bbl.

the positives of a 4bbl is there are more carb options, and more fuel injection kit options.

but if you are looking for and expecting a big gain in power performance 2bbl to 4bbl is no real difference
 
The spread bore manifold might net a mpg or 2 with a well tuned Rochester or Thermoquad carb, if he can keep his foot out of it. I put a Holley 390 cfm carb on my 345 and can get 15mpg if speeds are kept to around 55. I tuned it with lean primaries and rich secondaries for POWER. What I've found is right about the time the secondaries open it's time to shift.
 
FDChappie said:
The spread bore manifold might net a mpg or 2 with a well tuned Rochester or Thermoquad carb, if he can keep his foot out of it. I put a Holley 390 cfm carb on my 345 and can get 15mpg if speeds are kept to around 55. I tuned it with lean primaries and rich secondaries for POWER. What I've found is right about the time the secondaries open it's time to shift.
Click to expand...
well done ! do you remember your getting on the 390 CFM ?
 
folks, I appreciate the responses. Good info. If I keep the 2bbl, I still need a good solid recommendation. Any particular Holley that is an "almost" direct setup (vacuum lines, linkage)? Also, I really still need some basic help on the OHMS issues stated above. T

Thanks all,

Richard

p.s. - I don't know why the pix below ends up "upside-down", but this is my son's 77SII.
 

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