727 issues. Help please!

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Dudewith4x4

New member
Hello all. I've read around and learned a lot from this website but it's one of my first times posting. Earlier today I got my Scout high centered. I looked underneath and didn't see anything leaking or what I thought looked damaged so I was trying to climb another hill about 30 mins later and put it in 4 low and now it won't come out of 4 low and when I put it in drive or 2nd gear it just makes a ticking noise. When I put it in 1st or reverse it ticks for a second and then moves fine. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Is there a linkage I could have messed up and not it's not quite going all the way in gear?
 
Have you checked transmission fluid level? Is it kinda brownish and burnt smelling or bright red? When was the last time you changed said fluid? If it's low, now would be a good time to drain it and drop the tranny pan and check it. And adjust both bands.
 
Thanks for the reply. The fluid is not burn and still bright red but I don't know the last time it was changed. Do you think the ticking is from a lose band?
 
How about some back story on this rig. Like how was it shifting and driving before you got hung-chowed? Please don't hold back about any odd behavior you noticed before the off road romp. I have a tough time believing that a simple high center situation would damage an otherwise strong shifting 727. How much rocking back and forth and gear slamming between forward and reverse was required to get free? Now if the trans was already slipping and in powerful need of a rebuild beforehand, I could see how any quick venture off smooth pavement could lead to massive headaches in a hurry.
First thing I think you need to do is get the t-case back into 2hi. If you're not an old hand with this Scout, you need to know that the d20 t-case and tf 727 auto combination can be a bit testy at times when it comes to selecting between various ranges. This combo has a tendency to bind up at times. When trying to come back out of 4lo, I've found that it helps to use both hands. Left hand on the trans shifter and right hand on the t-case lever. With the engine running, slowly cycle the gear shifter from p-r-n and back while applying back pressure on the t-case lever. Don't be afraid to let the rig move a foot or two while in reverse. Once you get it out of 4lo and into neutral, it May be helpful to shut the engine off, wait a moment and then pop the t-case lever down into 2hi with the engine stopped. Then you can re-fire the engine and see how things are working with the front axle disengaged.
 
Thanks for the reply scoutboy. Well today it was finally warm enough to go out and mess with the Scout. I got it in 2h by following your instructions. It still has no movement in drive and second gear. Before I took it off roading it drove fine up and down the highway. The only odd behavior I have noticed is having to let off the gas to let it shift sometimes. I only rocked it back and forth a few times before using the winch.
 
Needing to feather the throttle between up-shifts indicates that bands and/or clutches were slipping due to either poor adjustment or excessive wear. Now that the trans has likely gone nipples up, I'm leaning strongly towards excessive wear as the cause.

When the following conditions are met and you have no go...

1. Engine running.
2. Xnfer case firmly engaged in either 2h, 4h, or 4l with front hubs locked and unlocked.
3. Gear selector and shift linkage at transmission are synced together and moving in equal and opposite directions (p is furthest forward on selector and furthest rearward on linkage...etc etc)
4. Atf level is in safe range checked at hot idle in n on level parking surface.

Yes to all the above and she still don't move?...something fairly catastrophic has occurred to either the t-case (pretty rare) or the trans (more common). The slippage tells us that the trans was already sick and angling for tlc before it failed. So my buck-fitty-eight wager says pull the trans down for inspection and overhaul. And don't feel too bad about not catching this warning sign or that warning sign early enough. Even if you'd attempted some kind of adjustment to the bands, at best you'd likely only be delaying the inevitable for a couple months. When these units are tired and ready for service, they just call it day. The good news is that when they're healthy and well-maintained, they are capable of delivering many miles of trouble free operation.
 
I did all the things lists and nothing has changed. I think this Scout has had a hard life. I talked with a tranny guy today and he quoted me about $700... He said there has to be something internal messed pretty bad.
 
Most of them have been rode hard and put away wet. While they can withstand a lot of abuse, eventually it catches up. Then some well meaning guy like you (or me about 13 years ago) comes along with more desire than knowledge, just hoping to enjoy an old classic. All too often, the piper must collect his fee before much fun can happen.

Does the price quote include removal and installation or bench work only? How about a new/reman torque converter? The only right answer to that one is yes by the way. Does he offer any warranty on parts and labor? Just some additional things to be on top of before you commit.
 
I know what you mean man. I spent 3 hours the other day just trying to fix the previous owners wiring under the dash. It seems like people just don't care about these older cars. I ran into problems like this when working on my nova but Chevy parts are cheap and plentiful but Scout parts are a lot harder to find. The cost only includes the rebuild but he will rebuild the tranny with all new parts with a new torque converter. I will pull the tranny my self. I May try and re seal the transfer case while I'm at it. Thank you for all the help scoutboy I really appreciate it.
 
You're welcome. A decent rebuild kit runs about a c-note and a converter is roughly the same price. Now you have a rough idea as to the parts versus labor breakdown. Are you going to drop the t-case out first or bring the married couple out together? I've done it both ways. Its less unwieldy to bring the t-case down first and then the trans, but if you have a good tranny jack, that helps a lot. Be sure to get he rig up high enough (safely) beforehand to allow adequate clearance under the frame to slide the damaged organs out.
 
dudewith4x4 said:
...I put it in drive or 2nd gear it just makes a ticking noise. When I put it in 1st or reverse it ticks for a second and then moves fine.
Click to expand...

I am coming in late here on this thread, but your info tells me that one of the planetary gears is broken.
Time to pull it and rebuild.
 
You'd have all the parts at the ready in one fell swoop, which is the best way to go if you're making that swap. That one has been rode hard and put away wet too. Surprise, surprise, surprise!!! At minimum it will need a new clutch, t/o bearing, pilot bearing, and flywheel surfaced. Trans and t-case May also be ready for some guud luvin' too. You May have already figured on all that. Just making sure.
 
I know this is an old post now, but since the vehicle still moves forwards (in manual low only) and backwards there is only a couple possibilities according to the mental flow chart that was thumped into my brain when I built and troubleshot these about 40 years ago for the rcmp and taxi companies.

First, we know the rear clutch and low/reverse band is still good or it wouldn't move forward at all in manual first gear, so the rear sprague isn't engaging in drive.

The front clutch (and rear band) is still good or it wouldn't back up.

Since the truck doesn't move manually shifted in drive or second, then either the over running clutch is bad (as in spinning in the rear of the case) or possibly (but less likely) a planetary is blown because one is used in forward and the other in reverse.


While dropping the trans pan and valvebody will allow you to inspect the front band, alternately you can loosen the front adjuster nut and turn the external adjuster screw in till it gets tight, which should be no more than 6 full turns max.

If it keeps going till it's flush, then the front band is broken (foregone conclusion).

If it's within spec when tightened, then back it off 3 turns and drop the pan and look for pieces.

If there are none, and there is a hill nearby that you can go high enough up to coast down fast enough to hit drive (about 30 mph) and shift the lever to drive with no gas. If it engages drive solid then both sets of clutches are good.

I just realized that it's possible the passing gear lever could be jammed down too, but it really sounds like one way sprague to me going by my old flow charts. Bolt in replacement is much better than the pressed in spline in aluminum style.

Another thought (that I already dismissed for the reason below): if the trans feels like it's trying to go forward, but it feels like a brake is on, then the park rod could be bent and engaging until the lever is moved all the way to first. That however wouldn't explain it moving in reverse unless it's bent in such a way that the rod comes out of the parking pawl in reverse, then goes back in neutral through second and pops back out in manual first.

I've seen my fair share of weird things with these transmissions. I had the output shaft bearing cage come apart and turn into a one way clutch that even mystified a shop with 50+ years trans experience. A tiny piece of that cage then got caught in the governor and caused the trans to downshift to first gear at 75 mph, tearing the trans case apart and exploding the torque converter.
I even had one brand new lockup converter that was doa (not a problem IH suffers from I hear. I wonder if the last couple years of production had the channels in the case for lockup?

Tom hand's guide to the chrysler torqueflite automatic transmission

Lockup 727 vs non-lockup
lockupvsnon.jpg
 
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