1310 Barn Find - or - Rescued from the field.

[Scout IISS]

Hi all,

I found out that one of my neighbors has a IH 1310 pickup thats basically rotting away right next to his barn. So I asked him if he was willing to sell it. I liked the price he asked, $200, and I clear up the title issues.

So, now all I have to do is drag the old guy back to my shop and find out how much of the truck is left.

After I get him cleaned up, I plan to put a diesel under the hood. Any suggestions of engine makes? Powerstroke, duramax, cummins?

I'm also looking for suggestions on all other power train components.

When this truck is done its going to be a man of many hats rig basically a farm truck, stump ripper, hay trailer hauler, and the like.

 

[IHRunner]

Keep it International under the hood. You can spit and hit a cummins. Fart and hit a small block. And trip and hit a Jeep.

Best options.

6.9/7.3 idi. Basic simple old fashioned diesel.
T444/7.3ps. Any questions? Best v8 diesel ever produced.
Vt365/275. Aka 6.0 and maxxforce 5. The 6.0 is a good diesel.
Maxxforce7/6.4ps. Also a very good engine
dt360 or dt466. Probably to big for your platform. But would be awesome

I like the 6.9/7.3 idi. Small. Compact. V8 diesel. Good parts availibility. Option of a borgwarner trans. Its time tested. Doesnt have any fancy crap to deal with. Just plug and play.


My 2 cents. Im glad you rescued her. Always good to see a truck get a second chance at life

 

[Scout IISS]

Do you think a built up sd-33t would do the job? It was an option in the Scout II in 1980. I was thinking I might be able to get 350 hp and 650-700 trq out of the engine without beating on it too much.

Put a tremec t56 behind it and a Dana 60 rear end with a 3.73 gear and I'd have good combo.

If not, I'd be more inclined to go with a 6.0 ps.

Looking inside she's going to need a completely new interior. Moss everywhere! And the seats are molding.

 

[IHRunner]

I dint think the sd33 could ever see those numbers. But ive never tried.

 

[Scout IISS]

Don't see why not, getting 300 out of a 3l gasser isn't that hard. And the sd33t has the right bore/stroke and stroke/rod ratios to make that kind of power.

 

[IHRunner]

don't see why not, getting 300 out of a 3l gasser isn't that hard. And the sd33t has the right bore/stroke and stroke/rod ratios to make that kind of power.

A gasser you can bump the compression. Make it breath better. Use better fuel. Turbo/supercharge.

Heres why I dont think it can be done. Lets take the baddest ass diesel their is on the market right now used in lightduty to heavy duty apps. The dt466/maxxforcedt platform. 7.6 liters. 210-300hp. This is a diesel with 50+ years of engineering under is belt. 300hp is the max! Output.

The Nissan sd33t is small. Its old. And looking at it. Has wayyyyy to high of compression as it is. Power numbers that were impressive in its day. I just dont see how it could safely be made to put out 50 more ponies. Much less 200 more.

Start of with more cubes. The 6.0 has good numbers. Is fairly small. And if you're a ruddy electrician you May be ok. The 6.9/7.3idi. Same thing. But you dont need to be king electrician

 

[Scout IISS]

Well, I just found more detailed specs on the sd-33. It has steel sleeves. Thats a deal breaker.

I think for the time being I'll hold on to the gasser. If it turns out to be a paper weight, I'll swap for diesel.

Though I would agree its best to keep it as IH as possible, I will have to go with whatever engine I can afford at the time I'm ready to make the swap.

I need to take some time looking over the rig and then come up with a game plan.

 

[MarkO]

If you try to get more out of an sd-33t you are going to get total meltdown. Even in stock form they tend to burn pistons if you don't have a pyrometer letting you know you are getting things too hot.

If you really want a diesel one of your best bets is to purchase a used school bus. You will get all of the parts and pieces necessary for the swap including any harnesses, tin ware, accessories, etc. And after the swap you will have a great storage shed or several tons of scrap metal.

Harlows bus sales has lots of buses for sale, many of which will have an engine that will work for you. bus inventory - harlow's bus sales, inc.

If you are interested, contact me.

 

[Scout IISS]

You are the second person to make that suggestion. At present I'm looking at a couple different busses. But I'm also keeping an eye out for a package truck with a 4bt. The busses I'm looking at all have the 6bt, but I don't know if it will be too large for my engine compartment.

I've been told that a 4bt is nearly gutless stock, but that with just a simple exhaust and intake upgrade will fix a lot of those issues. Also, since my truck is pre-deq I can ditch a lot of the after treatment equipment.

Banks makes a lot of what I'll need to get the engine running the way it should. I'm not building for lots of power, I just want my engine to run as efficiently as possible, so I get the most out of each drop.

And the best part of outing a 4bt in it is that I can mate that right to a torqueflite a618, without having to get a custom bell made.

 

[MarkO]

I have seen several full size light lines that have had 6bt transplanted.

The slickest transplant was in a round body t-all.

Since they are about the same length as the I-6's that came from the factory fitting them in hasn't been much of a problem.

I think the biggest problem is getting enough cooling capacity.

 

[Scout IISS]

Well, I've had a change of heart. The thought of keeping everything as International as possible has been naughing at me lately. And the more I look into it, the more convinced I become that a t444e is the right way to go. I can put an 4r100 behind that engine. John woods builds a good built up trans that will be able to handle the torque load the engine is going to put on it.

But all of that is a long way off. Even though I'm not fond of gasser engines, I should at least try to get it running again. I also need to make sure the transmission works. Add to that, I need to replace the brakes.

Any suggestions on where to get a low cost disc brake conversion kit? Or would I be better off to just fix the drums I have?

 

[MarkO]

I May have missed it somewhere as to which year your 1310 is.

If your 1310 is a 1968 or older with the big 6-lug wheels it would be less expensive to swap axles and get axles with disc brakes on it already than trying to purchase nos or reconditioned brake drums. GM and mopar both have axles that will work without a lot of fabricating.

If your 1310 is 1969 or newer there are several disc brake conversions available since ihc even used disc brakes on some of their 1-ton axles.

Just make sure that whichever disc brakes you end up using you get something that is relatively common=inexpensive. Some of the ihc disc brakes are almost as uncommon as the big 6-lug brake drums=expensive.

In regards to power swaps, make sure you have run the numbers before you spend the time and $$$ to do the swap. I have figured that I would be hard pressed to pay for an hei/efi upgrade on my gasser. Doing a power package swap is a non-starter for me as long as my sv304 keeps plugging along. The only way either swap would be cost effective is if I were doing mega miles every year.

At less than 2000 miles per year I just can not justify the upgrades.

If I was going more than 10,000 miles per year I could justify the hei/efi upgrade. But in order to justify the diesel power swap I would have to be going well in excess of 100,000 miles per year pulling the trailer.

Good luck.

 

[Steve Grant]

Dt 360 would be a good diesel to stick in that truck. It has wet liners. Mechanical fuel pump. They used from the late '80's very early 90's.

 

[Scout IISS]

I May have missed it somewhere as to which year your 1310 is.

Its a 1973.

if your 1310 is a 1968 or older with the big 6-lug wheels it would be less expensive to swap axles and get axles with disc brakes on it already than trying to purchase nos or reconditioned brake drums. GM and mopar both have axles that will work without a lot of fabricating.

If your 1310 is 1969 or newer there are several disc brake conversions available since ihc even used disc brakes on some of their 1-ton axles.

I have a Dana 70 rear axle. There are several reasonably priced disc brake kits for that axle.

in regards to power swaps, make sure you have run the numbers before you spend the time and $$$ to do the swap... ...at less than 2000 miles per year I just can not justify the upgrades.

I live on a farm in the middle of podunk nowhere. I drive close to 20,000 a year. And since the engine is coming out of a bus that I'm likely to pay less than 3 grand for (and selling the rest for parts and scrap, we can subtract that too), and all my helpers are friends and neighbors, so my labor costs are paid in beef.

As for the art morrison frame, john wood 4r100 towmaster, advanced adapters atlas transfer case, Dana 60 front axle, new interior, and every other minor detail, well, I just have to save my pennies.

dt 360 would be a good diesel to stick in that truck. It has wet liners. Mechanical fuel pump. They used from the late '80's very early 90's.

Yes, I've come across that engine in a few busses. I'm not sure what my transmission choices would be. I know with a t444e I can easily adapt it to mount to the 4r100, and I like the gear set.

The truck came with a Dana 70 rear axle, and I can get a 3.54 pinion and ring gear for it. And I can also get the same gear set for the Dana 60 front axle. So, once I have the engine and trans swapped, and the rear gear updated I'll be getting some pretty decent mileage (fuel and smileage).

The more I think about this build, the more gitty I get. But I will have to do it in stages.

 

[Bo185]

Its a dulley right?

What front axle is in it now should be Dana 70 closed knuckle. Better off just turning the drum and new shoes. For now. Then just swap to a later pass drop Dana 60 with disc's. They are pretty common and bolt right in!

If its a Dana 44 you can swap to GM 8 lug disc outer's, tweek the u-joints and enjoy.

As for the rear I would just get a late model aam 11.5'' it will have disc's stock. The dodge's even already come in the 3.5x ratios as well. It will save alot of money over a gear swap and disc kit for the rear. Plus its stronger then a Dana 70. Similar weld on new perches which are cheap too. I can get decent mileage used rearend around here for $300-400 ready to go. Check out car-part.com--used auto parts market

A bus will most likely has an allison auto with sae bellhouse.

I have been looking at buses as well for the t444e to swap into my 1210. But I might just stick with a manual.

 

[MarkO]

If you do repower to diesel power you are going to have to change out the rear gears.

Most of the 3/4-ton and 1-ton ihc vehicles I have seen had 4.09 rear gears. Some had even shorter legs like 4.56 or even shorter. The longest legs I have seen were in the 3.70's.

Even with gears in the 3.70's range you are going to have a really low top speed since most light duty diesels like the 6bt or the t444 redline at 2650 rpm. With 4.09 gears that will give you a top speed of about 47 mph.

Some of the dodge/cummins trucks had gears in the under 3.0 gear ratio range.

Which is part of the problem and added cost of repowering to diesel power.

One other thought, if you do get your power package donor from a school bus, why not use the allison that is usually found in a school bus. You May have to make some tunnel changes but the durability of the allison is head and shoulders above any of the automatics found in light duty trucks from the big 3.

Since most are 4-speeds you could really go high speed with the rear gears since you would have a really wide spread of gear ratios that would give you low starting gear.

 

[Scout IISS]

its a dulley right?

No. But a have a neighbor that has another 1310 rusting away in her barnyard that is a flat bed, with a duelly. I'm strongly considering buying her ear axle, and putting it on mine. I can easily have the bed modified.

what front axle is in it now...

At present its 2wd. So no front axle. I'm going to replace the front end so I can make it into a 4wd.

as for the rear I would just get a late model aam 11.5'' it will have disc's stock. The dodge's even already come in the 3.5x ratios as well. It will save alot of money over a gear swap and disc kit for the rear. Plus its stronger then a Dana 70. Similar weld on new perches which are cheap too. I can get decent mileage used rearend around here for $300-400 ready to go. Check out car-part.com--used auto parts market

I've got the Dana 70 axle. I already have the brake kit ordered. It was half of the cost of what I have seen aam 11.5's going for.

a bus will most likely has an allison auto with sae bellhouse.

I have know idea what the transmission is, if its got a good gear spread, then I will modify my tunnel, if not, its going on ebay.

I have been looking at buses as well for the t444e to swap into my 1210. But I might just stick with a manual.

Not sure what manual trans will mate up. The zf 6 speed really can't handle much more than what the engine put out from the factory.

most of the 3/4-ton and 1-ton ihc vehicles I have seen had 4.09 rear gears. Some had even shorter legs like 4.56 or even shorter. The longest legs I have seen were in the 3.70's.

I'm going to stick a 3.54:1 gear in the rear end. The parts aren't that expensive since I have several neighbors that have the requisite vehicles to be pulling parts from.

one other thought, if you do get your power package donor from a school bus, why not use the allison that is usually found in a school bus. You May have to make some tunnel changes but the durability of the allison is head and shoulders above any of the automatics found in light duty trucks from the big 3.

as I told bo185, if the transmission has the right gear spread, I'll keep it, if not, its going on ebay.

What I'm planning for the engine will cost a pretty penny. I'm going to strip it down, put in head studs, get it fire ringed, put in a more aggressive cam, slight longer stroke (making it a 454 cid), and lower the compression ratio by lowering the deck.

After all that I'm going to set up a compound supercharging forced induction intake. The first stage will be a pair of vortech v3 superchargers that blow air through an intercooler. These chargers will then feed a kenny bell 4.2l liquid cooled supercharger thats mounted on top of the engine.

All totaled I'm looking at about 35 to 45 pounds of boost. All without any boost lag. In my experience my engine isn't going to be spooling up the turbos during regular driving enough to really make much of a difference. With mechanically powered superchargers my air mass increases instep with my engine speed, so I always have full boost with zero lag, even when I'm idling.

So I will have zero problem with puffing black smoke.

 

[Bo185]

The point on the aam is if your having to regear the Dana 70 and do brakes, it will end up costing the same or more then an the aam ready to go with taller gears. So why not get something that will have a working parking brake. Most all the drum to rear disc kits don"t have a parking brake!!! Not to mention the aam is way stronger and will support your power upgrades so if its around the same amount in the long run its a no brainier.

Just buy a Dana 60 for the front since your 2wd. The dulley ones are common cheap if you look hard enough, and it will be better than the Dana 70 from the donor IH in the long run as well since it will have disc already too.sw

also, fyi the zf6 trans should handle what ever a stock dt444e with throw at it no problem. If came stock in the d-max trucks and will support 650ft/lb plus easy. But if your doing performance mods for the price I would avoid it.

I myself May just run a mdt trans out of my donor if its is a manual. Not to worried about it right now. I hav though about just running the t34 I have now with an sae bellhouse if I can find one then going with a gear vendors or regearing as well.

If you ran compound turbos there would be no boost lag and might package fit alot better and you can obtain those same boost levels. Is the sc going to clear the hood??

 

[Scout IISS]

the point on the aam is if your having to regear the Dana 70 and do brakes, it will end up costing the same or more then an the aam ready to go with taller gears. So why not get something that will have a working parking brake. Most all the drum to rear disc kits don't have a parking brake!!! Not to mention the aam is way stronger and will support your power upgrades so if its around the same amount in the long run its a no brainier.

not sure when you last shopped disc brake kits, but all the kits I've been looking at have parking brakes.

also, fyi the zf6 trans should handle what ever a stock dt444e with throw at it no problem. If came stock in the d-max trucks and will support 650ft/lb plus easy. But if your doing performance mods for the price I would avoid it.

If I took the stock engine, and only did the basic upgrades, I would overload the zf6. Which is why I'm looking at a 4r100.

I myself May just run a mdt trans out of my donor if its is a manual. Not to worried about it right now. I hav though about just running the t34 I have now with an sae bellhouse if I can find one then going with a gear vendors or regearing as well.

Whats a t34? I've heard of a t34 tank, but not a transmission.

if you ran compound turbos there would be no boost lag and might package fit alot better and you can obtain those same boost levels. Is the sc going to clear the hood??

The best, most advanced, multistage compound turbo systems all have boost lag. No matter what you do, a turbo system is going to have boost lag. Turbos require the increased exhaust gas flow to spool up. And that never happens until after the engine increases rpms. As a result, you always have turbo lag.

That's why any serious tuner will use a compound supercharger or super/turbo set up. Not to forget that its far simpler to install, and costs much less.

But all of that is a long way off, and will require many things to happen before its really worthwhile talk about how to hot rod the engine, most importantly, getting the right bus.

Now pulling back to reality here, I really have no choice but to work with what I have. I need to get the brakes working, and that means getting the drums to at least engage.

Once I have the ability to stop, I can work on the go part. As I see it, I really have no choice but to try to get the 392 working again. Its going to suck gas, but at least at that point it will function.

I will have an easier time working on it once I can get it moving and stopping.

After that, I can think about fixing the interior.

 

[Bo185]

not sure when you last shopped disc brake kits, but all the kits I've been looking at have parking brakes.

Yeah most use the worthless caddy calipers. Worthless parking brake for a heavy rig. I have yet to see an affordable disc brake kit with a decent parking brake. Even the reg non parking brake ones will be $300+ in the end by the time you buy the parts. Yeah the brackets are whats dirt cheap. Then you will have to ope the rotor holes. Good luck doing that if you ever need to change one and your nowhere near a machine shop. The complete kits are $600 for the parking brake ones.

Got a link to the cheap kits you mention with a parking brake??? Like I said your still going to spend money on a gear swap too. Do the math $200-300 gear swap, plus $300 disc brake swap. That's $500-600 easy. But, hey its your rig do whatever just giving you a stronger and equally priced to little more alternate in the aam 11.5. Most times they can be had for $500-800 around here, hell even the amm 10.5'' would work it the old 14 bolt with disc's. Those are even cheaper and they are the still as strong otr stronger than the IH Dana 70 which is not the hd one!

if I took the stock engine, and only did the basic upgrades, I would overload the zf6. Which is why I'm looking at a 4r100.

That's funny the power ratings listed for it say other wise. I agree not strongest but a stock 7.3l won't hurt it. Your the one that mentioned it in the first place. Lol

whats a t34? I've heard of a t34 tank, but not a transmission.

its a 5 speed overdrive that came stock in IH light and medium trucks in 60' 70's. Obviously, your very new to IH's. Buy a service manual they are available in repo and start reading its the best place to start.

the best, most advanced, multistage compound turbo systems all have boost lag. No matter what you do, a turbo system is going to have boost lag. Turbos require the increased exhaust gas flow to spool up. And that never happens until after the engine increases rpms. As a result, you always have turbo lag.

That's why any serious tuner will use a compound supercharger or super/turbo set up. Not to forget that its far simpler to install, and costs much less.

But all of that is a long way off, and will require many things to happen before its really worthwhile talk about how to hot rod the engine, most importantly, getting the right bus.

Now pulling back to reality here, I really have no choice but to work with what I have. I need to get the brakes working, and that means getting the drums to at least engage.

Once I have the ability to stop, I can work on the go part. As I see it, I really have no choice but to try to get the 392 working again. Its going to suck gas, but at least at that point it will function.

I will have an easier time working on it once I can get it moving and stopping.

After that, I can think about fixing the interior.

Hey seems like you got things all figured out, good luck with the build, not going to bother you anymore, by offering advice to someone that's been there and done alot on a d-series truck. (which is what you have btw since you never heard of a t34)