'72 1110 4x4 y'all 115,000 mi. 392w/ 4 bar. 727 auto trans. Looks like the one Jeff has on his site ( I just lifted 3", re-arc'd springs). It had been in warehouse, in tracy, CA for over 20 yrs last time it been lic'd in '92. Gas tank was full gasoline laq. It was a many mo. Project to clean it out! Plus 4bar. Holley carb was full, laq. 2 wks of cleaning and new kit. Runs great now, yet here's the problem: Holley dizzy is burning condensers I just drove 25 miles maiden trip it died, towed home, put new condenser test drive 2 mi. Died again, new condenser runs great, in my drive way I'm not test driving it on hwy, my insurance co. Is not going to be happy when they get the towing bills. What do ya guys and gals think is the issue? I didn't mention new tune-up parts. Puzzled here in napa CA. Thanks. Ps will installing a pertronix pointless solve this issue, advise!
Condenser failure. Holley dizzy multiple times
- Thread starter ybda65
- Start date
1975IH200
Active member
Well, congrats on your new IH.
As we know, vehicles do not get parked for no reason, usually something is wrong enough with them that they don't run reliably enough to keep driving, so they get parked.
Sounds like you have the fuel system in top condition, good for you!
My thought on the ignition is that the ballast resistor wire burned out years ago, then the po had ignition only during 'start' but not during 'run', so they bypassed the resistance wire with a full 12+ volts wire which then caused this issue, which he could not figure out.
So I would check your primary ignition circuits and repair/replace the resistance wire.
My opinion on pertronix at this time is that it would add complexity to your current issue and not solve the problem.
Points and condenser ignitions worked well for decades and can continue to serve well if properly maintained.
As we know, vehicles do not get parked for no reason, usually something is wrong enough with them that they don't run reliably enough to keep driving, so they get parked.
Sounds like you have the fuel system in top condition, good for you!
My thought on the ignition is that the ballast resistor wire burned out years ago, then the po had ignition only during 'start' but not during 'run', so they bypassed the resistance wire with a full 12+ volts wire which then caused this issue, which he could not figure out.
So I would check your primary ignition circuits and repair/replace the resistance wire.
My opinion on pertronix at this time is that it would add complexity to your current issue and not solve the problem.
Points and condenser ignitions worked well for decades and can continue to serve well if properly maintained.
Scoutboy74
Moderator
I concur with scott and furthermore would like to see some pics of your engine bay, primarily focused on the ignition coil side of things. Close ups as well as wider establishing shots. They could go a long way towards ending speculation about what you May or May not have going on under the hood. If this is indeed an improper resistance issue, one easy remedy is to add a porcelain ballast resistor of the appropriate value in series with your switched feed wire to the coil + terminal as opposed to a resistor wire. But let's see if we can get some good visuals of your situation before that determination is made.
I, thanks for ur replies both of u, I'm installing a baluster resistor from mopar brought it this morning figured that might help, yet here's my issue , my wiring 2 ign. Switch I cannot drop the switch to see the back of it, to wire baluster to ign. Post side there just isn't enough lead wiring. I removed steering wheel column cover, ash tray. Still not any room. This has the air conditioning vinyl gutter under dash. I no if I remove it, it's going 2 be a nightmare 2 reinstall! As fall as pics of coil, I'm photo challenged to this site! I know I'm right track now w/ ur advise! Yet puzzled w/ only the access issue thank u both! Not putting my self down, I have fat hands, which doesn't help!
I doubt if it is the condenser. Have you tested one? For v8 they are spec'd at .21 to .25 microfarad(mfd.). Most multi-testers, even from harbor freight, have a micro/pico farad function well within the limits you'll need. Also an ohm meter can show a pass/fail. Touch one tester lead to the wire and the other to the shell. It should go from 0 ohms to infinity pretty quickly. This is done of course with the condenser lead not connected.
They don't pass current, they only charge and discharge voltage and rarely fail. What does happen is the electrolyte in them dries out in the long hours of being on a hot engine. It is just cheap insurance to change them with the points.
Make sure the flexible or braided grounding wire for the distributor's advance plate(what the points are attached to) is firmly attached at both ends and not touching anything and is free to flex when the advance plate moves.
Is there still voltage at the coil's + terminal when the engine dies? You'll have to check quickly.
Does the coil get very hot?
They don't pass current, they only charge and discharge voltage and rarely fail. What does happen is the electrolyte in them dries out in the long hours of being on a hot engine. It is just cheap insurance to change them with the points.
Make sure the flexible or braided grounding wire for the distributor's advance plate(what the points are attached to) is firmly attached at both ends and not touching anything and is free to flex when the advance plate moves.
Is there still voltage at the coil's + terminal when the engine dies? You'll have to check quickly.
Does the coil get very hot?
Last edited:
Scoutboy74
Moderator
I hope you're not getting ahead of yourself with parts purchases. We haven't discussed many specifics thus far and it would behoove us to do so right now. For a v8 engine with breaker points, the ideal resistance factor is about 3.2 ohm total, with a range of 3.0 to 3.4 being quite acceptable. With ihc light vehicles of the 70's in stock trim, this was accomplished by a combination of the coil, which has a certain amount of measurable primary resistance across the small terminals, and a resistor wire of a specific length in series with the switched feed to the coil on the engine side of the firewall bulkhead connector. First lets discuss the coil. A stock coil in proper condition will display a primary resistance of 1.5 ohm when measured across the +/- terminals at room temp with no wires connected. If you've replaced your coil with anything other than an oe stocker, that resistance factor is now a variable that must be accounted for. Even a few decimal points off can throw this equation out of whack. Now, assuming the coil you have is a 1.5 ohm resistance unit, that leaves you lacking @ 1.8 ohm of resistance to achieve the magical happy total of @ 3.2 ohm. Ihc and some others rectified this deficiency with a resistor wire about 72 inches long. This wire when present is easy to identify by the odd looking cloth outer insulation and tin wire strands instead of copper beneath all the insulation. If this wire is no longer present in your case, don't fret. This is where a ballast resistor comes into play. So long as the coil is @ 1.5ohm and the ballast is @ 1.8, you're golden in so far as primary resistance is concerned. We can't assume its all good though. This will need to be verified with a hand held d-vom.
You shouldn't need to drop your iggy switch in order to install a ballast resistor. The switched ignition circuit between the ignition switch and the firewall bulkhead connector should be fine. I'd focus on the engine side of things.
Very helpful, infor! Coil is o'reilly's select #1003 listed for my stock 392 ci (new) hoping they sold me right one? 2nd. Great on wiring baluster to bulkhead, engine side! Question, any one of the hot leads? Or is there a color coded wire I should use? I'll call parts house to see, if they sold me a 1.8 ohm baluster. Sounds simple, I'll ck. Out everything w/ ohm meter tues. Morning just as soon as I get this condenser issue resolved, next will be, shocks, off my '65 1100d pu robbing the front and back shocks and installing on 't all front- kyb's rear sky jackers the 1100 has the same lift! Then a carpet kit- $139.00 free shipping no CA tax, they sent me 6 blue samples. Last sat I had crager 16" blk. Round hole steel rims, and used my f250's b f g at 285's plenty of tread, I up graded f250 to b f g at 305's as I haul, my auto carrier a lot. Hope u don't I'm bragging, I'm just excited, cause this rig is soo clean and there are not many I h's in napa county CA! Oh yakima. Carrier and basket on roof w/ bike rack. If I can figure pics. I'll sent u a few and 1100 d is a head turn'r. I'be been very fortunate , w/ finding I h's since 1978 I know u have the passion and r quite knowledgeable! Thanks u Scout 74 and u all! From a old army Scout
Scoutboy74
Moderator
Since your new coil is intended as an oe replacement, I would expect it to measure between 1.4 and 1.6 ohm of primary resistance. The switched power feed to your coil + terminal is known as circuit 16 in ihc electrical documentation. This wire is only hot when the key switch is in the on position. You probably have two wires connected to the coil + terminal. One comes from the starter solenoid 'r' terminal, known as 16a. The other wire should be 16 which will trace back to the bhc. Sound off if you have a different arrangement than what I've described.
Yes trevor, 2 wires to + side of coil a blk. & white one , so w/ advise, all I have to do is curcuit test b h c , when key is in the on position . The wire that goes to coil at b h c will be hot, right? Then install new wire from it to baluster, providing the baluster , I bought yesterday is 1.8 ohms! Plea e advise going to do this as soon as. Neighbors are up and at'm thanks again.
When we over come this, I'll advise ll
Oh, I should disconnect factory wire from b h c to coil, right? Or does it matter? Advise
Scoutboy74
Moderator
Do you have a handheld multimeter with a selection to measure resistance in ohms? I should have already asked you that. Yeah, if you take both of the wires loose from the coil + terminal, only one should be hot with the key switched on. That's your switched power feed. The other wire is a resistor bypass to feed your coil full voltage only during starter cranking, which is helpful on cold start ups. So when you isolate the switched power feed, as you trace it back to the bhc, you May find that there is ample length in the wire to simply make a cut in it near where you plan to mount the ballast, crimp on some connectors and then hook both ends of the cut wire up to the ballast. If the wire is in good shape and long enough to do it, there's no need to add another length of wire, but you'll just have to use your best judgement there. I'm unclear about which factory wire you're asking about? Is the original resistor wire still present? If so, then yes, you want to remove that and replace it with a new chunk of wire. Also, don't forget to switch your key back to off after you've done your test and id'd the wires. Leaving it on without the engine running for more than a few brief moments is not advised.
Ok understand, the factory wire 2 coil + are blk. And white u said 1 should be 16a and 16 I don't have wiring diagram. So I'll test 1 w/ iggy on and see which one is hot, then wire that one in 2 baluster, and the other side of it to + coil side. Test drive w/ extra (2) condensers in glove box and tools w/me, unfortunately. 2 make sure all's resolved! When this is all "squared away" I'd like 2 send u a gift certificate for a six're of brew. I'll let u know! Thanks
Oops yes I have multi tester to ck out ohm totals 3.2 ohms total or there a outs.
Hondo
Member
Hope it all works out. Problem I've encountered with the pertronix igniter 1s is they don't like it if you leave the ignition on with engine not running, just as points/condensors don't. Ignitor 2s are supposed to be better. Other possibility is some bad diodes in alternator. Condensors/capacitors are shorts to ac and will heat up and blow. I'm thinking your volt meter should show very low ac volts across condensor with motor running,less than a volt.
Scoutboy74
Moderator
I'd say at least one of those wires is not a factory wire then. If they were both factory wires, one of them would be the ugly, cloth insulated resistor wire. If they both appear to be normal automotive wires, then pretty safe bet that at least one has been replaced, if not both. I could tell by looking if I had a pic to view, but in lieu of that I'll have to just guess. Once you get this squared away, you can always convert to a module down the road if you choose. If you go that route, its a good idea to plan ahead with your wiring and allow yourself the ability to revert back to points if need be should the module fail while you're out-n-about. Also, you'll want to make certain identification of your distributor model before you make a module purchase, as IH used several varieties over the years. The modules tend not to be one size fits all.
Trever I would like all, on this site to know , you followed me all the way though this condenser issue. It now resolved! Every number you provided is excactly how my ign. System is operating at . The blk wire goes to starter. The coil hot wire is whiteish in color, under the cloth resistance wrap, which was unnoticeable, only because it was frayed all the way back under the blk electrical tape wrapping! Here how it ended mounted the baluster (it tested out to 1.8 ohms, w/ multimeter) I ran the blk wire directly to + coil side . Spliced into resistor wire(white) , a length long enough to mount blaster to firewall away from as much engine heat as possible, into one side and out other side of baluster to + coil all's well now running 9vts. To iggy instead of 12 vts. ( which was burning out. Condensers!). All ur ohm reading are correct! In system, now. The parts counter guy even sold me the1.8 ohm baluster, he did 't know it or couldn't even provide me w/ a number, as they work off computers. And if it's not on the screen oops so thank u so much and there is lesson here, strip back the white wire back far enough , under the blk tape wrap to see that indeed it is the cloth wrapped resistance wire the factory installed! On the subject of pointless pertronix sys. Yes I know there are many versions, as it took me 2 orders to get the right one for my Holley iggy in my 65. 1100d it runs on 6a mad controller, blaster epoxy msd coil and a ho 182 pertronix 1. I have that set up to convert to points, again ,if the pertronix fails! Ign. Parts in glove box! So the t'all has an appointment weds morning 7:30 for new exhaust system, dual mufflers remember this thing hadn't seen direct sunlite for over 20 hrs. I won't be inhaling exhaust fumes , when I take this 1110 to oregon 2nd week in aug, look for me on the 5. Onward, david
Scoutboy74
Moderator
Glad it worked out david! Scott, (1975 ih200) beat me to the original diagnosis. I just piggy backed. This is a pretty common issue with a breaker points setup and I remember how it befuddled me the first time I encountered it back when I didn't know an ohm from a gnome! So I got lerned up mo guuder on it by Mike mayben years ago. Using a short chunk of the old resistor wire to hit the bhc side of your new ballast resistor is fine as long as you aren't using the full run of resistor wire in conjunction with the ballast. That would be straight out of the department of redundancy department. I'm gathering by your numbers that you ran a new length of wire from the coil side of the resistor to the coil. That's the right way to go. What part of the orygun 5 ya fixin' ta run? Have a safe, fun trip.
Yes all's good, just a lot of minor things ta. Correct like, back elect. Window motor. So I can haul and load construction tools, 2 help out a war vet up in boring! He just got a job and his families bathroom. Floor is falling in! Looking forward to his project, I no longer work for money! Just help folks in need! Vets are my priority ! So his father frought on hamburger hill 101 airborne, billy jr iraq and ad-van. Always a pleasure! Thank u! Camping on the way up / panzer, my male weim. Stop @ oregon gardens, silver ton, May come back though sisters-bend hit k-falls and catch the 5 to red bluff. Oh I was surprise that Mike didn't chime in hope he's of good health! Catch ya on the back side, ole napa cowboy- native expression! Many thanks good life ta ya and all those ya care for. Ranger Scout and still kick'n