Starting Issue

J

jasondart

Member
Engine is back up! She just wont start. I thought I had everything hooked up properly, but.....

1967 304 pickup 1200

battery is fully charged.

When I turn the key, the regulator clicks once on first turn of key, then when I try to engage starter, the regulator clicks again. Nothing from starter.

The starter is new.

Regulator


Starter (does this seem right?)


Firewall
 
Last edited:
Jason,

that voltage regulator would be for the alternator and not the starter. The wire hookup on the starter solenoid looks right but make sure that the wire that gets power with the ignition switch in the crank position is on the 's' terminal of the starter.
 
Could be just the lighting of the pic playing tricks on my peepers, but it sure looks to me like the green/blue wire connected to the large center lug of the solenoid has gotten very hot at some point in time. The insulation looks like it allowed some smoke to escape, but perhaps it is just greezy-grime? Might wanna examine that closely...just sayin'.
 
scoutboy74 said:
could be just the lighting of the pic playing tricks on my peepers, but it sure looks to me like the green/blue wire connected to the large center lug of the solenoid has gotten very hot at some point in time. The insulation looks like it allowed some smoke to escape, but perhaps it is just greezy-grime? Might wanna examine that closely...just sayin'.
Click to expand...

That is just grease.

Ok, I got the starter to engage. Still won't fire up. Once in a while the regulator will "trip" for lack of a better word and there won't be any power and starter will not engage.

Another question on the ignition coil. When the regulator "trips" (meaning no clicking when turning key) I will not have power to the coil. Just to confirm, power from ignition to the + side of coil and - side to distributor?

Also, because there is an external fuel pump there is an extra wire that was on the coil (can't remember what side) that has power when fuel pump is turned on. How should this be hooked up? It does not make any sense to have it hooked up to the + side along with the ignition wire, but messing with this helps "reset" the regulator.....:mad5: this is driving me nuts!!!!!! Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Just a guess, but that sounds like a ground wire for the pump. Perhaps it won't start because the pump is not working???
 
Here is how the regulator should be hooked up to the best of my knowledge: google image result for http://www.junkyardgenius.com/charging/images/76-77charging01.gif It shouldn't have any affect on the starter as it is just getting a constant source of electricity from it. When the key is turned on it should energize the coil which would turn on the regulator/relay. Check your coil for voltage with the key on using a test light. If that is good pull the wire off of the distributor and lay it against the intake and it should spark when the engine is cranked over. If that checks out, repeat with a spark plug wire. These engines time off of #8 instead of #1 so if you swapped wires just double check to make sure the firing order is correct.
 
Neither terminal of the ignition coil should be used as a tap to supply power for any accessory such as an electric choke, fuel pump etc. The negative terminal of the coil is not a chassis ground either. As michael stated, the vr is not a part of the starting/ignition process. As the name implies, it regulates voltage while the charging motor (alternator or generator) is rotating.
You mentioned that the battery is fully charged. Was this measured with a handheld meter? Full surface charge at the battery terminals is roughly 12.8v. My suspicion is that you're experiencing significant voltage drop somewhere between the battery and the starter solenoid. You should see the same voltage at the solenoid that you see when measured across the battery terminals. The same applies at any junction downstream from the solenoid such as the firewall bulkhead connector (if still in use), ammeter gauge, and fuse block, as the main power feed into the cabin originates from the large solenoid terminal. Another possibility is that your battery has a weak or dead cell an is incapable of delivering sufficient amperage to the starter when called upon.
 
Update: I went through and made sure all grounds were grounded. Still had intermittent clicking at voltage regulator and starter issues. I understand they are separate, but it would seem that when I had no click at regulator, starter also did not work. Any, I tried an old mechanics trick...actually I was pissed off and started smacking around the wires under the dash. She then fired up...:out:

I had fuel leaking under carb at mount, so going to put in new gasket, drained old fuel. Once I get that done, we will see how she works.

The exra wire to the coil is only hot when fuel pump switch is on. I am guessing it is not needed....
 
Another question. Do you y'all ground dizzy with that green wire coming off the side opposite coil wire, or does it ground to timing gear or plate to hold it in place?
 
jasondart said:
update: I went through and made sure all grounds were grounded. Still had intermittent clicking at voltage regulator and starter issues. I understand they are separate, but it would seem that when I had no click at regulator, starter also did not work. Any, I tried an old mechanics trick...actually I was pissed off and started smacking around the wires under the dash. She then fired up...:out:

the exra wire to the coil is only hot when fuel pump switch is on. I am guessing it is not needed....
Click to expand...

sounds more like pure shit-ass luck than any type of preferred repair method, on two counts. One, that you didn't damage anything or cause an electrical fire, and two, that whatever you did somehow magically caused the starter to engage. All of which continues to point in the direction of a traceable and fixable electrical issue. Success here usually involves patience and a logical, methodical approach. How about a couple pics of your coil up close and wider angle too. I can't accurately comment on this mysterious "extra coil wire" until I have a better idea of what it is and why its there.

jasondart said:
another question. Do you y'all ground dizzy with that green wire coming off the side opposite coil wire, or does it ground to timing gear or plate to hold it in place?
Click to expand...

the coil receives any ground that it requires via its bracket attachment to the intake, as the engine block is grounded to the chassis. No wire run to the coil is required for chassis ground. Both coil terminals must be able to pass voltage in order for the ignition process to occur. Don't be confused by the (-) minus sign on the coil. That means negative polarity, not chassis ground. Those are two totally different things in the electrical realm. Yes, chassis ground is most often associated with negative terminals of batteries and so forth, but not in the case of your coil. Both poles are hot and neither should ever come in contact with chassis ground.

My comments in yellow.
 
Update:

she runs!

Here is what I did or what I could figure....due to lack of knowledge/remembering where wires go I thought I May have fried coil or points. I decided to replace points in distributor, replaced coil (in case I fried the old one), added a resistor (which I did not have in the first place), and rebuilt carb. That all May or May not have helped, but wanted to rule it all out.

I was getting it to turn over no problem, but it would back fire out the carb and not run. I set timing again, and again and could not get it to run. Turns out even though I had timing Mark on 0 it was never on the compression stroke. I even put a dowel in #8 to figure tdc. So, to figure compression stroke had a friend put finger over #8 and I turned engine by hand until he felt pressure. The 0 Mark was close, so I lined it up again and it turns out I was 180 degrees off.:hand: removed distributor and lined it up properly and wabam! Had forgot to hook up vacuum to distributor, so until I plugged vacuum off the intake manifold with my finger she didn't stay running. Once I did that, she purred like a kitten.

Still weird thing is that the positive wire coming from ignition to coil will not keep engine running. Does not provide power. Only when starting, but let off that and she died. Turns out I have to have the positive from the fuel pump switch to coil for it to run. Whatever, it now works.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top