Engine upgrade options

S

slimmaybe

New member
I sure hope I don't tick some folks off with this thread. I tell ya seems like every time I get on a forum, I either fail to supply some important detail that frustrates the members or I get told "get to reading, newbie! Then come back when you know something!" I thought that was what forums were for? Lol
I've had my old Scout now for about 20 years. It's been all over. I wore out two binder motors and finally converted over to a Chevy 350. I know, I know, don't get upset purists. I did it out of necessity. It's been a while since its been to town mainly because of gas prices. It's sits in my barn now ready to go anytime but that's all it does, sits.
I have two boys. One is 8 and the other is 3. They have plans for it. My 8yo can't wait to drive it to school. I don't know what to tell him. It'll be too expensive for a hs kid to drive!
I want to know if anybody has attempted a build using a late model fuel efficient motor. I want to consider all options cause my boys love the old Scout and I would love to see them drive it. I am not a newbie mechanic. I've tinkered my whole life so don't hold back. Lol
 
Since you already tooled the drive train for a GM v8, you can drop in any of the ls series of late model v8's. They will improve the mpg some... The only change will be the front mounts. They are a bit different.

Other than that a small GM 90 degree v6 will bolt up(4.3).
Could swap in a TBI setup onto the existing 350.
 
Welcome to the forum. I'm not going to flame you, but you May not like my answer. Your question is fairly open ended, and with the lack of specifics provided, the discussion can and likely will go in a number of directions. You're basically going to get what you give. So bear that in mind before you decide to shoot any of the messengers.

Folks have swapped a variety of engines into these rigs over the years. The main limiting factors are dollars, skills, determination, imagination, creativit,y and the ability to source/fabricate all necessary parts. The degree to which most or all of those hurdles can be met will determine the overall success of the conversion. Only you can honestly assess where you stand with each of those categories.

You say you wore out two IH engines. Without knowing any specifics at all...(which engines, their condition when you began, your maintenance practices, your driving habits etc. Etc) I'm going to posit that perhaps both engines were already in their twilight stages before you started. A fresh IH gasoline v8, as in zero miles, balanced and blueprinted, well maintained, operated regularly, and operated within the designed limitation range...is going to log 300k miles or more before needing an overhaul. A small block whatever from whoever under the same set of circumstances will have been overhauled at least once if not more during that same span. There are very few engines in existence, when starting at dead zero on the clock, that can outlive an IH. So that's my take on the durability issue.

Now let's talk fuel economy. True, the IH engines overall were not engineered with great fuel economy in mind. Really no vehicles of this category were by any manufacturer in that era. It was a different time back then. Gas was a lot cheaper and people tended not to log as many miles in a year forty and fifty years ago. Now, IH engines can be updated with electronic ignition and electronic fuel injection, which does provide some performance and economy gains over original configuration.

There's a lot more that goes into the economy than just the engine. There's vehicle weight, aerodynamics, driving conditions, and driving habits. A Scout has the aerodynamics of a 4'x8' sheet of plywood turned broadside into the wind. Ain't no cure for that one. IH not only stands for International Harvester, it also stands for its heavy. The damn things were built outta steel, not plastic. Now you've already shaved some weight, I think by swapping in the sbc. That's only if you had an IH v8 in it to start with. If you went from a 4-popper to the sbc, the weight factor is a wash. You might have even added a little weight. Point is, the thing is an overweight pig. It takes a lot of gas to move a fat pig from a dead stop and keep it moving at highway speed, no matter what engine is under the hood.

Now lets talk about return on investment. We have no idea what your budget is, or what specific drivetrain components you'd prefer to have installed. Let's say it costs you five grand when all is said and done, which let's face it, is on the cheap side for modifications of this nature. Now let's say a stock IH v8 engine in a proper state of tune averages 13 mpg in real world driving situations, and lets say the new, swapped in whatever, whatever gets you an average of 18 mpg, for a net gain of 5mpg. How many tanks of fuel would be required to recoup that $5k (or whatever amount) investment? I don't know, but that's something you might want to factor in to your decision. Hope this helps.
 
Of course you helped. Yeah, should have been more specific about a few things but you were pretty accommodating about it. I agree with you about the weight issue, especially the motor. When I dropped in the sbc it hardly sagged the springs! Had to fab some shackles for the the back springs to get it level. I have, over the years, thought about how to put the rig on a diet without compromising the frame etc. And it's really difficult. Like you said, they're made of metal. Fiberglass panels, aluminum bumpers, quality plastic components are all ideas that have been kicked around over the years but never came to pass solely because every step I took to make it "not" a Scout the madder I got. Guess I really am a purist. Lol
as far a budget goes, I have a few years before the boy drives. I'm not saying money isn't an issue but I've already bought a car for my oldest daughter and anything I do to the ol Scout is a guaranteed roi when compared to that venture.
My thoughts keep drifting toward finding a wrecked late model Chevy and retrofitting everything I can into the Scout. Purism out the window on that option. I don't know how feasible this plan is but am going to check into it.
Btw. I never really " wore out" those two binder motors. One was pretty whipped to begin with and the other I just took out cause at the time parts were hard to come by.
 
If ya want economy go diesel. A diesel will tend to help keep high school boys out of court due to speeding tickets too.
 
Robert,
ya know, I asked advanced adapters if the adapter they sold me back in 2000 would mate to a 4.3l and they said " no" even when I argued that a 4.3l is just a chopped off 350. I could have been talking to the "new" guy though. Lol . When you say late model ls motors, how "late" and motor mounts not being an issue.
 
fdchappie said:
if ya want economy go diesel. A diesel will tend to help keep high school boys out of court due to speeding tickets too.
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Don't think for one second I haven't thought about that! That's funny. What diesel would you recommend. Btw that crap "diesel" is getting over the $4 Mark around here.
 
Well since you're already setup for GM a bt4 from a bread van would almost bolt right in. Teach the kids how to make bio-diesel and driving costs would be really low.
 
fdchappie said:
well since you're already setup for GM a bt4 from a bread van would almost bolt right in. Teach the kids how to make bio-diesel and driving costs would be really low.
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Nope. I'm in oklahoma. Everybody keeps their cooking oil to fry fish and taters in. Lol both parents retired from wonder bread. I'll ask the old man if he knows someone that knows where to get a route truck. They went bankrupt so maybe there are a few out there. When you said " almost" bolt in did you mean major or minor differences.
 
There are forums dedicated to 4bt swaps. There are 4bt engines mated to turbo 400 trans, so you'll need front motor mounts fab'ed.
 
slimmaybe said:
Robert,
ya know, I asked advanced adapters if the adapter they sold me back in 2000 would mate to a 4.3l and they said " no" even when I argued that a 4.3l is just a chopped off 350. I could have been talking to the "new" guy though. Lol . When you say late model ls motors, how "late" and motor mounts not being an issue.
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They didn't know... The 4.3 like you said is the same bell pattern and will bold right in place of the 350.. Only the front mount location will need to be moved. Most people I know who do the swap say it's simple. I've personally never down sized a wheeled vehicle but on a boat (btdt) the front mounts moved aft on the stringer..

The ls was introduced in 96-97 (iirc) still produced today but from the ls1 to ls8 they have come a long way and they replaced the venerable sbc we all grew up on... It has the same bell pattern as the sbc but is way more modern. Sequential efi, distributer-less ignition with coil per plug, and much more. You can buy all of the goodies to configure it to just about any drive line around. The front mounts are different but not to bad to chance. I think you can even buy swap mounts to replace the sbc.

However I would prefer a 93-95 lt1 out of a camaro or corvette. Look better and more flexible imo.
 
Robert kenney said:
they didn't know... The 4.3 like you said is the same bell pattern and will bold right in place of the 350.. Only the front mount location will need to be moved. Most people I know who do the swap say it's simple. I've personally never down sized a wheeled vehicle but on a boat (btdt) the front mounts moved aft on the stringer..

The ls was introduced in 96-97 (iirc) still produced today but from the ls1 to ls8 they have come a long way and they replaced the venerable sbc we all grew up on... It has the same bell pattern as the sbc but is way more modern. Sequential efi, distributer-less ignition with coil per plug, and much more. You can buy all of the goodies to configure it to just about any drive line around. The front mounts are different but not to bad to chance. I think you can even buy swap mounts to replace the sbc.

However I would prefer a 93-95 lt1 out of a camaro or corvette. Look better and more flexible imo.
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I've looked into the ls motors. They are, like you said, much more modern. I'm wondering if I would really be gaining much if I went even later models that have flex fuel options. Also, those inline 6 cylinder Chevy vortec units like they put in the trailblazers seem to have plenty of power and decent mpg.
 
Robert, I think your forgetting the 4200 that GM phased out a couple of years back. It was the inline 6 version that got nearly 300tq/hp. The 3500/3700 i5 could be a good option aswell.
 
The inline 6 4200 vortec is about the same length as a sbc it is however taller. The 4.3 would be a breeze because it truly is tiny, I had one in an old budweiser cargo astro van and ran it to 349k before I blew a head gasket.
 
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