Freshly swapped 345 won't manually crank

[Tahoedonner]

I just swapped in a used 345 from something other than a Scout. Had the front u-shaped motor mount. I swapped mounts, swapped oil pumps, swapped oil pans, added the flexplate spacer, and bolted on the flexplate (properly torqued). The engine dropped in just fine and in the process of bolting the flexplate to the torque converter I run across my current issue. I can only rotate the engine about 1/4 to 1/2 a rotation by hand. It then just stops. I don't want to put too much pressure on it for fear of messing something up. When I performed Maybens old iron stuff on my previous 345 (block ended up being cracked) I had no problem rotating the crank manually. Am I missing something very obvious here? I pulled the oil pan again and watched as I rotated the limited distance and didn't notice anyting catching. I pulled the valve covers and did the same and nothing seemed out of whack. Should I pull the manifold and valley pan to check the pushrods? Maybe one popped out? I'm afraid to attach the starter and bump it using power without figuring out this issue. Btw the transmission is in neutral. Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Scoutboy74]

If one or more pistons is seized in it's bore, the engine will not turn over. Definitely do not try bumping it over with the starter motor. You can try rotating the engine over by hand with a large socket and breaker bar on the front crank hub bolt. Clockwise rotation only. If that doesn't get things moving, I think you be looking at pulling the heads to see what the pistons and cylinder bores look like.

 

[Tahoedonner]

I'm rotating from the front now. Guess I'm going to have to pull the heads and see whats doing. Nothing seems to be easy with this build yet. Then again what was I expecting.

 

[dkminors]

Did it rotate freely after you completed the oil pump swap?

You should be able to shoot a light down from the rockers to check that the lifters are still in place not to mention the pushrods articulating properly.

 

[ronmc1954]

You might try unbolting the torque convertor then try to turn the motor. I assume you have the tranny bolted to the motor, did you have any problems bolting up the tranny? As having to use the bolts to pull tranny and motor together?

Ron

 

[Robert Kenney]

Sorry to hear you're having grief on this one too.

Are bolts you are using to attach the flex plate to long? 3/4" of thread engagement max.
Are the plugs out? I.n. Pull the plugs out. Look for signs of water damage. Shoot about 1 table spoon of engine oil into each cylinder. Try to turn it again.

Did it turn before you decided to swap it in?

If these don't help, remove the rocker assemblies and see it it frees up. Could be a stuck valve.

 

[Tahoedonner]

sorry to hear you're having grief on this one too.

Are bolts you are using to attach the flex plate to long? 3/4" of thread engagement max.
Are the plugs out? I.n. Pull the plugs out. Look for signs of water damage. Shoot about 1 table spoon of engine oil into each cylinder. Try to turn it again.

Did it turn before you decided to swap it in?

If these don't help, remove the rocker assemblies and see it it frees up. Could be a stuck valve.

I'm using the original flex plate bolts from the previous engine and torqued them to spec. Didn't measure how much thread engagement.

Plugs are out and I have attached a pic of them.

I didn't turn the enigne manually before install due to prior owner saying it ran fine. This could turn out to be my biggest mistake made. It was on a hoist with a chain and didn't feel comfortable putting too much pressure in any direction.

Fwiw the po did mention that the had pulled the heads and put in new head gaskets.

So here's the next plan of attack:

unbolt torque converter from flexplate.

Shoot oil down each cylinder and try to turn manually.

Then if all else fails remove rockers and try to turn again manually.

I'll let you all know what the verdict is and thanks to everyone for the help here.

 

[Robert Kenney]

Ugh, by the looks of the plug body corrosion, it looks as if the engine sat out and exposed to water. You can see where water sat in the plug hole area for a while. Might be a a agood time to have a close look through the plug holes whith a flashlight. Any sign of corrosion and I'd think a head removal was in order.

 

[Scooter]

Agreed on how those plugs look. It also looks as though the new(to you) motor hasn't been ran in awhile. Even after pulling the heads, the consideration of a rebuild might be in order. I would rebuild it, but that's me. Maybe, as a minimum, honing cylinders and new rings, along with new bearings(cam and main) and of coarse new set of gaskets

 

[Tahoedonner]

A rebuild was definitely going to happen at some point but I was hoping for a runner and not a roller for the near future. Wouldn't turn after removing torque converter bolts. Removed swapped oil pump and still didn't turn. Removed rockers and still didn't turn. So had to remove the heads. Here is what I found.

#2 cylinder

#1 cylinder

Passenger cylinder head pics

Drivers cylinder head pics

Head gasket (both looked the same)

So as you can see a rebuild is definitely needed. Disappointing but expected since I didn't crank it over manually when I bought it. Live and learn.

Fwiw wouldn't the po who pulled the heads have known what shape this engine was in. I'm not blaming anyone but myself for this but it sure seems like this didn't happen overnight.

 

[Robert Kenney]

Wow what a f&%k'n bumer.

if I had sold it to ya I'd give you your money back and buy you a bottle of your favorite poison. It's simply uncalled for to sell a pos like that. That is not over night water damage. That took months, perhaps years and many wettings to accomplish. The po had to know.

That would have been visible from below when you had the pan off.

 

[Dealbreaker74]

That's a painful post to read, dude. I rebuilt one that looked that bad (maybe worse). But I knew what I was getting (it was free), and there was no mis-representing it for anything more than the pile of crap it was.
Sure hope the c-sucker that sold you this bill of goods is happy with himself.
Keep your head up. We've all been there. Keep up the posts. There's good help here.

 

[Tahoedonner]

Yeah I'm pretty pissed but like I said I have nobody to blame but myself. I'm not going to mention the person out of respect and hope that maybe I can get some good karma coming my way.

Question:

this block is rebuildable yes? All other cylinders look good, or at least don't have any water damage. My other block is shot. I was planning on using the heads from my previous engine anyways since they are emissions legal and the Scout is a 79.

Also wondering who people use/trust/respect in the bay area, preferably the peninsula, to rebuild their IH engines. I want this thing to run with out any problems for some time.

Thanks again for all the replies.

 

[ornelles]

What a bummer, I had the same exact thing happen to me, bought an engine from a guy, said it was running when he parked it. Guess he did not think it was important to tell me that he parked it without a hood or aircleaner on it for about 8 years.....anyway, I had two cylinders that looked exactly like yours. Ended up a good hone with a dingle berry and new rings/bearings/cam/cam bearings/gaskets fixed it right up...now its not running cause the wiring harness is crapped out. Good luck, keep at it and it will get better.

 

[Scoutboy74]

Wow sucks balz. I hope you didn't get dinged for more than the scrap value of that motor. I wish you luck turning your lemons into lemonade.

 

[Tahoedonner]

Didn't pay much. Just $150, which included some interior top side panels in good shape. If it is a rebuildable core then I'm okay with it.

 

[Robert Kenney]

All that matters is that you are ok with the situation.

A very slim chance that the bores will clean up with a bottle brush hone and be defect free. If it was going to be a trail rig and not subject to emissions regs I'd let a small amount of pitting go and re-ring it if the bore size was reasonable. In your case however a little oil passing will kill the smog crap test.

Good luck with your build. Please review our cam bearing install information with special attention being payed to bearing #2, #4 and #5 with 5 being the rear most bearing. Don't line hone the mains unless you see odd wear on the old shells. Usually check them but I have only seen one that was off and that was only .001.

 

[vancetater]

I was the sob who sold it to him and I know it ran when I pulled it we are workin it out now and I will deffiatly give him money back and hope to help out with any other problems

 

[Tahoedonner]

Vance has been more than responsive to this matter and I truly respect him for that. I had initailly been a dick to him and he still responded with class. Thanks.

 

[Scoutboy74]

Very commendable. A true sob would develop a sudden case of amnesia and that would be the end of the story. Glad you guys are working together to iron out the wrinkles.

 

[Robert Kenney]

Glad it's working out.....

 

[Dealbreaker74]

This is a refreshing turn of events. Good on both of you for working things out!
And I humbly retract my previous comment.