1904 Air Filter and cast iron intake.

[RobG]

Ok, Mike is getting me straightened out on my carb problems, I'm ordering one tomorrow. I'd like to put a dry air filter on the carb when it comes, the intake diameter is about 1 7/8 inch. Do I just need to make an adaptor since I can't find the filter with that size fitting?

Also, on another note I noticed in another thread that all 152 engines came with aluminum intakes. Mine is cast iron and has the 2 3/4 stud spacing. What's up, do I have a rare bird? I got the build sheet and the engine is original to my 68 800.

Thanks for every bit of help I've gotten in the last two days. You got my business.

Rob gimmel

 

[Robert Kenney]

Hi rob,
lots of miss information floating around out there.

Here is the aluminum manifold deal for Scout 80's

1961 -1962- all used the aluminum intake
1962-1963- most had the aluminum manifold but IH started to introduce the iron ones.
1963-1970 the 152 four bangers all had the iron manifold (r3-r4 revs are iron). Believe the 196 also had iron only.

The 152's all had 2 3/4 stud spacing. The 3" stud spacing was used on the 196 due to the larger throttle bore.

 

[Michael Mayben]

We have the small, oiled fabric air cleaners here at my location right now, in fact, I picked up more this morning from my supplier (yes onna Sunday/holiday weekend!).

I have some very nice industrial plastic adapters to mount those with, not the crappy stuff ya see at speedway and others. You will use the oem clamp from your oil bath air cleaner to retain the adapter, then the air filter elements is retained with a wing nut onna stud.

The adapters are items I've located that were made up years ago, and I'm having those machined slightly to properly fit and seal to the 1904 as we speak! I hope to have the first batch completed by the end of this coming week and will post pics at that time.

The problem with the few adapters for these carbs out there is...they allow "dirty" air to bypass the aftermarket filter!

This pics shows one of the prototypes but the adapter is not shown. This carb was a scratch build I've just completed and is going on an offy dual carb manifold for a Ford 223, it's a perfect match to a carb I did last month for the owner.

If your engine is a road draft ventilation version, then all this is plug and play. If it's a pcv engine, then you will not be able to connect the oil filler tube to this type air cleaner base in order to have a "closed" pcv system. Instead, you will simply install a matching breather element to the fitting on the oil filler, we can supply the matched element to ya at the same time as the air cleaner workaround.

Robert has a real nice air cleaner setup on the rig he posted, but I bet he custom machined the adapter for that one! Once a proper adapter is set up on the 19xx carb, there are other air cleaner designs to chose from also.

 

[Robert Kenney]

Robert has a real nice air cleaner setup on the rig he posted, but I bet he custom machined the adapter for that one! Once a proper adapter is set up on the 19xx carb, there are other air cleaner designs to chose from also.

This one? No machining necessary. Cut up a stock oil bath unit and found an off the shelf element and off I went. I want to add a side skirt to the top for a cleaner look. Like a vintage cal-custom products look.

 

[Michael Mayben]

this one? No machining necessary. Cut up a stock oil bath unit and found an off the shelf element and off I went. I want to add a side skirt to the top for a cleaner look. Like a vintage cal-custom products look.

Excellent workaround!

I get contacts all the time from folks looking for the oem-type oil bath system for doing restos (Scout 80 and most especially the older pickups) so I try to "collect" those when I run across 'em. Some are way too rotten to use as a functional unit though so I'll replicate what you have done next time I have one that is beyond hope!

These folks that are doing the dual 1904 setups on fords wouldn't go for that look though I'm afraid! And there May not be enough clearance between a pair of 'em anyway.

Some of the Ford apps that used the 1904 had an oil bath air cleaner that mounted in an "offset" manner and hung off and down on one side. Same type clamp arrangement for the tapered bell on the carb air horn though.

This is all good stuff to look for at those socal swaparamas yawl have down there so often!

 

[RobG]

Michael and Robert, both of those are really nice looking. Michael, please let me know when the one with the oiled fabric is ready to market, I'll get one from you.

Thanks
rob

 

[Michael Mayben]

michael and Robert, both of those are really nice looking. Michael, please let me know when the one with the oiled fabric is ready to market, I'll get one from you.

Thanks
rob

You should see your shipment on Wednesday's mail run, or Thursday at the latest.

I did some more work on this air cleaner adapter deal today, and I May have a more simple solution. I need to finish hacking the prototype of this version tomorrow and run the whole deal in the test mule to see how it works.

With either version of the adapter though, you will need to retain that "v" profile clamp that was used on the oil bath air cleaner. I have no idea where to come up with more of those, I have a few here now and will be looking for more in the future.

Hope to have some pics of this deal posted tomorrow nite, I have to make a repair to the exhaust system on the mule before I can run any more carbs though.

 

[RobG]

Thanks, Mike, when you get ready to machine the adaptors in mass let me know, I retired from this machine shop and still have access.

atlas machine & supply, inc.

Rob

 

[Robert Kenney]

with either version of the adapter though, you will need to retain that "v" profile clamp that was used on the oil bath air cleaner. I have no idea where to come up with more of those, I have a few here now and will be looking for more in the future.

If you select the correct size you should be able to use a marmon clamp or similer commercialy availible v-band clamp.

Fyi I have 5 nos IH oem band clamps.

 

[Michael Mayben]

thanks, Mike, when you get ready to machine the adaptors in mass let me know, I retired from this machine shop and still have access.

atlas machine & supply, inc.

Rob

Shit man, you need to be working on this adapter deal, I'm way out of my league here with my redneck methodology!

And...I gotta real excellent friend there in luhville you need to hook up with, he's doing s80 stuff right now, email me at:

michael@IHPartsAmerica.com

And I'll make the connection for ya. Bob does have some s800 parts stuff still I believe from a rig he parted out previously. His s80 is one of those u.s. Forest service specialty contracts from down in georgia iirc.

Bob is my connection still to toohey's auto parts there in luhville!!! He sends me care packages once a year from toohey's closeout bins! I have my own version of toohey's up here, that is where I find all this old junk that works well for the 1904 carbs and they got most anything in the way of common items for s80/s800 on the shelf!

I lived in luhville back in the 60's and worked out at appliance park in the compressor manufacturing plant for ge.

 

[Michael Mayben]

if you select the correct size you should be able to use a marmon clamp or similer commercialy availible v-band clamp.

Fyi I have 5 nos IH oem band clamps.

You and rob need to be working out this air cleaner adapter deal! The Ford folks will kill for those proper adapters!

I've never heard of a "marmon" clamp, thanks for the tip, I'll check it out...those would be imperative in order to adapt to the 1904 carb air horn!

Edit: now I know what you are referring to, I'd never heard the term "marmon clamp"!!!! Sample: http://www.spdexhaust.com/vbk_b.html

 

[RobG]

Mike, email on the way, so you lived in the big l and worked at appliance park, boy, it was something in it's day. Always a strike when time to set tobacco, cut tobacco and opening day of deer season.

Rob

 

[Robert Kenney]

You and rob need to be working out this air cleaner adapter deal! The Ford folks will kill for those proper adapters!

Seems like an adapter would be fairly simple to make to adapt a 2 5/8 airfilter for a stromberg 97/94 to a 1904 top stack. Only a aluminum ring with a step. Lots a options then. I'm working on the intake configuration for my roadster this evening and think I have it.. Whatcha think. 1964' 409/425hp (500 now) factory dual quads. I likey.

I've never heard of a "marmon" clamp, thanks for the tip, I'll check it out...those would be imperative in order to adapt to the 1904 carb air horn!

Edit: now I know what you are referring to, I'd never heard the term "marmon clamp"!!!! Sample: v-band clamps & sealing flanges

Yea I keep forgetting you never screwed with winged machinery. These are real common on turbine power plant plumbing and "marmon" was easier to remember than some an number.
This aeroquip v clamp is super close to the IH one.

http://www.herberaircraft.com/pdf/117cat/clamps/aeb201.pdf

 

[Michael Mayben]

seems like an adapter would be fairly simple to make to adapt a 2 5/8 airfilter for a stromberg 97/94 to a 1904 top stack. Only a aluminum ring with a step. Lots a options then. I'm working on the intake configuration for my roadster this evening and think I have it.. Whatcha think. 1964' 409/425hp (500 now) factory dual quads. I likey.

Yea I keep forgetting you never screwed with winged machinery. These are real common on turbine power plant plumbing and "marmon" was easier to remember than some an number.
This aeroquip v clamp is super close to the IH one.

http://www.herberaircraft.com/pdf/117cat/clamps/aeb201.pdf

Shit man...348/409 are the only chevs I'd allow in my shop! And dual quads can live in the bedroom, in the bed!

Both you guys are correctamundo, all we need is an simple adapter to mate with the bevel on the 1904 air horn. Most of the small air cleaners I have use two different plastic bushings to adapt to the strom97 or the rochester since those are the primary carbs used out there in hotrodland. That way, the off-the-shelf "universal" air cleaners can be used from any source, the adapter (and it must be air-tight so dirty air bypass is not an issue) and the clamp is something we can handle on our own.

I'll email each of you some information/pics I've gathered in trying to redneck this deal.

 

[Michael Mayben]

Mike, email on the way, so you lived in the big l and worked at appliance park, boy, it was something in it's day. Always a strike when time to set tobacco, cut tobacco and opening day of deer season.

Rob

Exactly!!!!

Tobacco season created a plant-wide strike! 20,000 folks get a break!

In those boom days of '68, I worked seven months, seven days a week, with at least four hours overtime everyday, usually a double shift. Huge cash at $4.63 an hour iirc!! Blew it all onna new roadrunner.

 

[RobG]

Michael, the carb came today, thanks for the quick shipment. I didn't have time to mount it, that will happen tomorrow, I'll let you know how she runs. Did you ever get a chance to get the contact info for your louisville contact?

Rob

 

[Michael Mayben]

michael, the carb came today, thanks for the quick shipment. I didn't have time to mount it, that will happen tomorrow, I'll let you know how she runs. Did you ever get a chance to get the contact info for your louisville contact?

Rob

I was gone most of yesterday and finally got home at 2ayem today.

I'll send out the info regarding the air cleaner sitch to you and Robert in the next few hours.

And...I'll connect you with "Bob" in luhville!

 

[RobG]

I we mounted the new carb today and things are just as bad, if not worse! I have got to be missing something here. We adjusted the timing to see if that helped, it didn't, we now have problems with the throttle binding, aparently it's in the linkage somewhere. We I take the linkage loose the throttle is fine. It seems like the linkage is trying to go past verticle so it will not drop down to idle. When driven the truck still has no power and is either detonating or popping back through the carb. I'm about to the point to buy you a plane ticket here!!!!! I know I have missed something somewhere. I do have a couple of buddies that I can get here that are pretty sharp on old engines, I'll get them out here. We also took the rocker shaft off to see if I had a bent pushrod because of the valve noise and the power issue. Everything is fine. I might need a profitable fire!

Rob

 

[Robert Kenney]

Can you take a clear photo of your carb and the side of the intake manifold? I am suspecting a vacuum leak from the t fitting where the fuel pump vacuum line and pcv valve connects.

Can you remove and block the pcv valve?

 

[RobG]

Robert, here are a couple of photos of the pcv valve. I'll block it off later today and see what happens. I've also checked the vacuum and sometimes it's rock solid and other times all over the place. Could the pcv do this?

Rob