D-20 internal sludge removal?

raleighrugger

New member
About 6 months ago, I purchased a 304/727/d20 combo and figured I'd finally start cleaning up the transfer case. The d20 was disconnected from the transmission when I bought it for easier loading, and wrapped in a plastic bag.

So today I opened up the bag, and noticed a lovely brown sludge inside the case. Like the gear oil had mixed with water perhaps. It kind of resembled, sorry in advance but this is the only way I can describe it, is baby poop in color and consistency. Any suggestions on good ways to clean out the inside of the tc without having to remove all the gears? It spins well, didn't have any signs of leaking, and I don't want to really tear it all apart if possible.
 
This is a very common issue, no doubt the transfer case (and the transmission have been submerged , it's impossible to keep water out if you don't replace the oem vent with a hose barb and a flex hose run up high into the body like an "air gap" on dishwasher in the kitchen. Same for the axles!

Pull the pan off the d20, that give fairly complete access. Then use a siphon-type compressed air blow gun and spray naptha or some sort of petroleum base solvent in side to flush it cleanly while spinning the shafts. Do not use that "water-base environmentally-friendly" shit. It's worthless and will simply makes this problem near impossible to deal with without total disassembly, all it does is turn the oil residue to crisco.

If any moisture at all has remained in that case for long, corrosion has already set in and started etching the bearing surfaces, bearings, shift forks/rails, etc. The oil in the case does nothing to protect the finely-machined surfaces and rust will form no matter how much oil is present.

I deal with watered transmissions, transfer cases, drive axles, steering gears, etc. All the time. No way around disassembling and doing this right if you plan to use the parts.
 
Thanks Mike for your advice and continued tech support to the IH community. It's guys like you who are willing to share their wealth of IH knowledge with others that keeps these awesome vehicles on the road and out of the wrecking yards. All while keeping a some of our hard earned cash where it should be, in our wallets. :icon_up:

well it looks like I'll be tearing it down then. And doing it the "right" way.

Since I've got a ton of other things that are higher on my priority list, and the d20 I currently have in my Scout works fine (sits behind a 3-speed manual transmission), can I use this tc with the 727 I plan to swap in? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'll have to change the main "spud" drive gear from the d20 that originally sat behind the 727. Is there any other modifications that will have to be done?

I've never rebuilt a tc before, and the "big book" (IH factory service manual) As I like to call it, directions for disassembly are a bit vague and have no pictures. Is this a difficult process for a first timer? Any useful tips? I figure it May be a good chance to learn and not have to worry about messing up my only tc.
 
Like any other mechanical assembly, there are all kinds of "tricks" involved in busting into a d20! I'm no expert and since I do maybe two a year, I haven't developed any proficiency!

But...I do have a major collection of d20 cases busted down and cleaned on the shelf to serve as potential "builders" or parts donors. And that serves me well to refresh my memory when I do bust into one for a build, most folks are not so fortunate!

I certainly agree with ya, even with all the info on these units on the net (the novak stuff is the most complete), the IH service manual is meant for a mechanic with training and experience, it's not the best for someone just learning this stuff!

Scoutboy74 (trever) and I are working up a "redneck" how-to-build video for the tf 727 now to post here exclusively for the use of our members. As soon as that is in the can, we're gonna do the same regarding a d20! But doing a video even redneck-fashion is very time consuming so it doesn't happen overnight!

Since the case you have is not a pressing issue, then go right ahead and use it in learning mode! At least I'd get the mung out of it and see how corroded it appears inside, I don't wanna discourage ya, but I'm just speaking from experience that this stuff that looks nice on the outside, can be a total disaster internally, to the point that nearly no component is useable!

As for using the bull gear that is on your t90 tranny right now and installing on a Scout II 727, no, that will not work. The spline design is completely different. If ya go to the novak website, you will find a fairly complete spreadsheet with an analysis of this issue that includes the IH variations! So what you will need is the bullgear for the 727, then it must match the intermediate gear "pitch" angle. But ya simply do not know which intermediate gear is installed in the tc right now if ya don't look inside and get the part number off the gear (need a flashlight and mirror to do that). Once ya know what ya have, then we can help decide what ya need to make it work. If you are going to overhaul the tc anyway, that is the time you can swap around any internal parts/gears as needed, we May have good used stuff that will help ya in that regard!

There are hundreds (if not thousands) of jeeps, broncos, and scouts running around out there with the wrong bull gear/intermediate gear pitch mis-match! Making much noise, jerkin' around, and failing left and right. But folks that boneyard that stuff just blame repeated failures on "crappy parts", "Dana 20 cases are weak", etc. And this issue is compounded by the fact that new parts for these cases haven't been produced by spicer/Dana in many years, though new parts are on the shelf through many vendors (as well as good/correct used parts).

Everything is in your favor right now for learning how to do this! Take many pics and ask many questions!! I have an early d20 twin-sticker (Scout 800 with t-18) now that needs to be freshened, that's the one that trev and I will use for the video shoot. And guess what...that one had water in it also but it's not damaged in any way!

For teardown, common handtools are used, you will need a big hammer, some soft "drifts" of various sizes, a nice set of allen wrenches (tee handle). But nothing really special that ya can't make on your own if need be...ya gotta be creative and be patient!

Warning though...a good bull gear for a 727 can be a major bitch (and expensive) to find! The last two I sourced came from a transmission wholesale supply back east and were used. But a "marginal" gear can be repaired using a hand-grinding process similar to what a dentist would do!

Here's the novak link regarding the parts interchangeability:

the novak guide to Dana 18 & 20 gears interchange
 
scoutboy74 (trever) and I are working up a "redneck" how-to-build video for the tf 727 now to post here exclusively for the use of our members. As soon as that is in the can, we're gonna do the same regarding a d20! But doing a video even redneck-fashion is very time consuming so it doesn't happen overnight!

If binder u would come up with sum grant dinero, we cud dive into this project full time! Mebbe obamala and the gummint wud be willing to subsidyze the endevor. We can't count on jerry for any more funding.
 
if binder u would come up with sum grant dinero, we cud dive into this project full time! Mebbe obamala and the gummint wud be willing to subsidyze the endevor. We can't count on jerry for any more funding.

Hail yes, our personalpork projek is just as needy as all that other shit obamalamadingdong and hiz chi-town cronies are throwin' our cash down the shithole about!

But then, when the chi-town boyz come to call regarding "payback"-style backscratch, it could result in another st. Valentine's day massacre (figuratively speaking of course since jerry would be involved)??

So on second thought, let's just fund this in typical fwb style...deficit spending/deficit budget, that's what makes socialism so great!
 
like any other mechanical assembly, there are all kinds of "tricks" involved in busting into a d20! I'm no expert and since I do maybe two a year, I haven't developed any proficiency!

But...I do have a major collection of d20 cases busted down and cleaned on the shelf to serve as potential "builders" or parts donors. And that serves me well to refresh my memory when I do bust into one for a build, most folks are not so fortunate!

I certainly agree with ya, even with all the info on these units on the net (the novak stuff is the most complete), the IH service manual is meant for a mechanic with training and experience, it's not the best for someone just learning this stuff!

Scoutboy74 (trever) and I are working up a "redneck" how-to-build video for the tf 727 now to post here exclusively for the use of our members. As soon as that is in the can, we're gonna do the same regarding a d20! But doing a video even redneck-fashion is very time consuming so it doesn't happen overnight!

Since the case you have is not a pressing issue, then go right ahead and use it in learning mode! At least I'd get the mung out of it and see how corroded it appears inside, I don't wanna discourage ya, but I'm just speaking from experience that this stuff that looks nice on the outside, can be a total disaster internally, to the point that nearly no component is useable!

As for using the bull gear that is on your t90 tranny right now and installing on a Scout II 727, no, that will not work. The spline design is completely different. If ya go to the novak website, you will find a fairly complete spreadsheet with an analysis of this issue that includes the IH variations! So what you will need is the bullgear for the 727, then it must match the intermediate gear "pitch" angle. But ya simply do not know which intermediate gear is installed in the tc right now if ya don't look inside and get the part number off the gear (need a flashlight and mirror to do that). Once ya know what ya have, then we can help decide what ya need to make it work. If you are going to overhaul the tc anyway, that is the time you can swap around any internal parts/gears as needed, we May have good used stuff that will help ya in that regard!

There are hundreds (if not thousands) of jeeps, broncos, and scouts running around out there with the wrong bull gear/intermediate gear pitch mis-match! Making much noise, jerkin' around, and failing left and right. But folks that boneyard that stuff just blame repeated failures on "crappy parts", "Dana 20 cases are weak", etc. And this issue is compounded by the fact that new parts for these cases haven't been produced by spicer/Dana in many years, though new parts are on the shelf through many vendors (as well as good/correct used parts).

Everything is in your favor right now for learning how to do this! Take many pics and ask many questions!! I have an early d20 twin-sticker (Scout 800 with t-18) now that needs to be freshened, that's the one that trev and I will use for the video shoot. And guess what...that one had water in it also but it's not damaged in any way!

For teardown, common handtools are used, you will need a big hammer, some soft "drifts" of various sizes, a nice set of allen wrenches (tee handle). But nothing really special that ya can't make on your own if need be...ya gotta be creative and be patient!

Warning though...a good bull gear for a 727 can be a major bitch (and expensive) to find! The last two I sourced came from a transmission wholesale supply back east and were used. But a "marginal" gear can be repaired using a hand-grinding process similar to what a dentist would do!

Here's the novak link regarding the parts interchangeability:

the novak guide to Dana 18 & 20 gears interchange

In the major collection of d20 parts, any chance you have a cap that covers the shift rod seals. I've attached a picture since I probably cant describe the part too well. A result of some texas edumakashun..
 

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Who knows when mayben will be back in the fold on a regular basis. D20's are common as dog poo. Are you plugged in with the hill country crew at all? I'd pursue local angles for this part you need. Shouldn't be too tough to come up with one.
 
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