weighing 2 axle swap options

M

michaelp

New member
I have a 71 800B auto, 304, with a front Dana 30 and rear Dana 44 axle, 3.73 gears

I have been researching doing a sii axle swap, and have two sets of options currently available to me in my immediate vicinity:

1. A 3.73 sii Dana 44 front with drum brakes.
2. A set of 3.54 (3.55?) sii Dana 44 axles, with a disc brake front.

Gearing and "symmetry" issues aside, I'm wondering about the effort involved with swapping the drum 44 front to discs versus swapping in the 3.54 front and rear. Also, once the drum 44 is swapped to disc, is it exactly equivalent to a later model 44 that came with discs, or is there some difference?

Thanks.
 
No, I haven't - and I was/am skeptical too. I've read a few reports on bp that there were drum front d44's on Scout II's but I guess I don't know if those are definitive. I'm calling the guy who has them later today to find out.
 
I've seen a d44 front with drums. As well as d30 with disc brakes....

Do not waste your time with swapping a drum brake front axle under your truck - you will kick yourself.
 
I've said it many times...I'm no fan of "stock" sii disc brakes of that era, certainly no more braking capacity than the drums. And that is in regard to non-po abused brake sets that are original in all form with properly matched cylinders, decent shoe material, etc.

But, swapping over an IH-pattern Scout II disc set is no big deal...especially with your current plan of action for the rig!

Can't remember what your current rear axle ratio is...but again, I'd not let that be any kind of a deal breaker. Perfect used gear sets in ratios 3.73 and higher are very common! And either ratio will serve you perfectly well given your planned usage of the ride.

If this was my deal, I'd go with the pair of sii axles if you are certain they are the same ratio. That eliminates having to do a gear swap, though the covers will still need to come off and a clean-out done along with a visual inspection of condition. Then the 800 axle becomes a donor for someone doing a resto.

I've had two pair of these same disc/sii axles pass though my hands in the last year since they are always nice trading material.

Up in yore kuntry, I'd venture most parts such as this inna 4x4 sii were used in plow service, and as such are gonna be real nasty to deal with...but that will be the case no matter what axles ya find up there. But a note of caution...Scout II axles sets have a problem with "bending" of the tubes due to the somewhat odd unsupported lengths of the tubes. And this is not something that can be determined in a visual inspection, the guts have to come out and a machined inspection bar/fixture inserted to determine axle tube bend. If the ride the axles were under was wheeled, then most likely one or both will show some tweek.
 
Interesting, thanks. I'll be wary of the bent axle shaft issue as I proceed.

I was thinking about the switch primarily for braking reasons, but also for turning radius and availability of parts reasons I've heard articulated in various places. If these are all non-issues, then perhaps I don't need to proceed at all! There are so many posts out there about the amazing benefits of changing from drum to disc, I just assumed it was gospel!

Same thing with reverse shackle. I was very gungho about that for on-road handling reasons, but getting deeper into some posts it seems like opinions are mixed, and in any case its a much more substantial effort.
 
For whoever is still interested, the guy confirmed he does have a Scout II Dana 44 with drums. So now it's a matter of deciding to get this and swap it to disc (because it is 3.73 and matches my gearing) or get a 3.54 set that already has discs.
 
Which set has the gear ratio you desire? The d44's are the same, the only difference would be the brakes, and they are easily swapped. However, if the ratio doesn't mater to you, the one with discs already would be done. Other than the required additional equipment (mc, booster if desired, prop valve, brake lines etc) you set.

If you choice the drum unit, *I* would still then convert it to discs, as I don't like drums. Now you have the added expense and effort of converting it to disc. Either sii system, GM/Ford system or hybrid IH/chev. Could be cheap, could be near the price of a whole axle depending on the deals you come by.

If you don't wheel hard with 32"+ tires, you don't need the strength of the d44, however the added turning radius of the open knuckles I'm sure will be much appreciated. If you plan SOA, 33" or bigger tires are had wheeling, the 44 would be a good upgrade now rather than after being pulled off the trail.


I think the answer the your question: swapping on discs is mucho easier compared to a gear swap. And faster. And depending on what you pay for gears/bearings etc, usually a lot cheaper.
 
It is coming down to cost and symmetry now. The guy wants $400 for the set of 3.54 axles, and he wants $200 for the one drum 3.73 plus $150 for the knuckles to convert to disc. So it looks like 1 axle will cost basically the price of two, with the advantage of staying with my current gearing. Or he has a set of 3.07 for $375 but I didn't think of coming down that much in gearing.

Anyone know of any pics of an 800 with just a front Scout II Dana 44?
 
Here's a pic of toddjo's "son of duckblind" ride we fabbed up a few years back...you May remember this one from all the back and forth we did about it over on the old bb??

This is a Scout 800 v8 chassis, with a 345/727 fabbed in, then a Scout 80 body dropped on (relocated/fabbed radiator support). Includes a set of sii axles just like you are considering that we changed from 3.07 to 4.10 and set up with sii disc brakes also that were in bad condition and took much work to rejuvenate. Scout II power steering gear adapted to a oem s80 steering column we cut down.

It's a springover of course (with properly twisted outers so it drives like a honda), uses stock Scout II springs with fabricated perches/hangers throughout, along with fabricated body supports, etc. It started life as an s800 rolling chassis only that had been partially submerged for quite some time.

This was a total poorboy project using "found objects" whenever possible but the fab work is superb! (but not at the same level as Darren/Jeff!), Jeff did give Todd alotta advice along the way!

This one also has the electrical system that we jointly developed back then, I believe you and I have discussed that in the past also?? Todd used a few additional circuits on this one since it's primary use is a backcountry hunting rig and he needed some additional lighting (he ain't a jacklighter though!!).

The stance ya see here is fully loaded with both tanks full and the spares box, Todd would not accept it not having a "level" stance, when the axle twist was done the entire weight of the vehicle was mocked up so that the caster would be "right" for best on-road handling with the higher center-of-gravity! It does have what amounts to about a one inch body lift due to the use of poly body insulators we snake locally for Jeep apps (these are not the so-called "hockey pucks"!).

Your project rig would be much simpler to execute!

My opinion regarding the parts choices you have now...go with the set of 3.54 axles, that ratio is just fine for your use! And then set aside the budget to either refresh or exchange the calipers and have the rotors turned...hopefully they will turn and not end up being scrap, but dealing with boneyard brake stuff is always dicey. Toss the oem proportioning valve as it will most likely be crap also if it's set around open to the atmosphere, budget another $75 for an adjustable proportioning valve installed in the rear circuit only, with the front circuit plumbed straight thru. Since the axles came from the same donor, then the rear drum brakes already have the proper diameter wheel cylinders to match the front disc setup when used with the oem proportioning valve. Budget for new flex hoses also.

If you keep it spring under for now, and want a bit of a lift for appearance...use the 5" (or 6") CPT shackle set front and rear, along with 5* spring wedges in the front only. That single set of changes will vastly improve straight ahead tracking and allow the steering to self-center. You could install the same wedges in the rear if ya think ya need to help the pinion angle a tad. The 5" shackle combo will provide about 1.5" of "effective" ride height increase on the stock springs.
 

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It looks the same as my '64 color wise, but we cannot find the actual IH color (name) in any of the paint charts out there. Vegas blue and turquise from that year don't match at all, we mixed up a small bit from the paint charts. We ended up going with a color out of a spectra chart??? Its a dupont color but doesn't have a (name) it is very close to the original color, but would be nice to have a name for it. We came to the conclusion that since it was a canadian truck there might be differences in paint colors, but this picture you posted looks almost identical to mine colorwise. If anyone has a name for the color I would be happy to hear it... Thanks


mgk
 
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