Trans, T-case out, now what?

[Mastiff]

Pulled the stuff out today. I pulled it from above with the hoist. The thing is leaking from all over, but before I order gaskets and seals I'd like to find out if I need any mechanical parts. Any suggestions on how to proceed and what to look for in terms of wear items?

Something in the system is whining at road speed, I'm not sure if it's in the transmission, t-case, or maybe just the timing gears in the engine, but I sure don't want to put this all back together if something isn't right. Thanks for any help.

This is a Scout 80 with t-90 and Dana-18 by the way.

 

[Mastiff]

Here are some close up for what they're worth. I posted a pic of the inside of the trans in a previous thread, but someone keeps moving my trans posts to another forum.

 

[brained]

something in the system is whining at road speed, I'm not sure if it's in the transmission, t-case, or maybe just the timing gears in the engine, but I sure don't want to put this all back together if something isn't right.

My experience is very limited to the few scouts I've had and forgive me if I'm stating the obvious but my d18 absolutely howled compared to the d20. If you look at the layout even in 2hi a bunch of the gears still have to spin in the 18 because of the offset rear output. On the 20 in 2hi all those gears are out of the loop and unused with the centered/direct output.

Also one of us has the rear output rotated 180 degrees. My speedo cable port faces the same direction as the fill plug.

Awesome looking Scout!

 

[Mastiff]

Well, I tore everything apart. Now I need to order parts and gaskets and hope that I can remember how it goes together. The gears in the t-case look perfect to me. Some on the trans, like the reverse gear, look a little scarred, but not unusable. Maybe you guys can see and tell me what you think.

The big damage I found was the input bearing on the trans which was actually missing some balls. I'll plan on replacing all the non-needle bearings. The needles all look okay.

I didn't take the main shaft apart on the trans, but I think a wire snap ring fell off when I was trying to separate the trans and t-case. It's in the pics below (right in the first pic, left in the second) can anyone tell me where that goes for sure. I'm also not sure what the little rectangular pieces are. Anyone know?

 

[RobertC]

Don't know what comes in the kits, but

you should inspect all the needle bearings for wear / "scuffing" /
"flat sides"

and

check the countershaft -- top center of second picture -- for wear... I do not know if a new one is available...

Check the brass synchro ring, too

forgot#3 -- as well as wear on the "teeth", the synchro ring can crack. They should "ring" when tapped with a piece of steel -- if they don't; check the circumference for a crack -- inside surface May be easiest...

Forgot -- you should check the shift fork(s) for wear, also. "horsehoe" shaped piece of metal that "pushes" the gears around. I do not see it in your picture. I do not know how much wear is acceptable, but if it is a lot (1/8"?) maybe you should find one in better shape. (I have no idea if a new is available.).

Forgot#2 -- check the throwout bearing collar for wear -- left side of first picture. If there is too much wear, it is possible for the throwout bearing to "cock" and "hang" engaging / disengaging the clutch...

 

[Greg R]

The little rectangular pieces are the synchronizer dogs that fit on the synchronizer hub and are retained by the larger retainer springs or wires so the dogs and hub will fit in the clutch hub. The clutch hub is what the forks engage with.
If they were my Gear boxes, I would go for the "master" kit that has all the pieces for an above board rebuild. You also get, besides the standard bearings and seals; new sychronizers and dogs, and one outfit offers heavy duty poppet springs for the transfer case. I would also check the intermediate shaft, the middle one, in the transfer case for any scoring or ridging however slight. If you can , try and git some extra shims for the transfer case's rear output bearing. Bearings follow a manufacturing tolerance so any two you buy May not be exactly alike, same goes for the front gasket; thus the extra shims to properly set up the endplay for the rear output shaft given the age gap between the originals and the replacements.
Don't skimp on the brass synchronizer rings, it takes a trained eye to see if they're still good and most guys toss the used ones anyway. It's hell to have to pull the transmission and do a teardown again because it ain't going into a gear right.

I don't know what ihon offers for these and I'm a bit hesitant in recommending any other place not knowing how Jeff feels about referrals.

 

[Michael Mayben]

All bearings in any transmission or transfer case need to be replaced, that is why we do an overhaul!

We either have in stock or can source the parts needed for this work, but you won't find the stuff in the on-line store, ya gotta call for information.

We don't make references for any other commercial operation that we are not "partnered" with in a business relationship.

 

[Mastiff]

You guys gotta get this stuff into the on-line store. Phones are tough for us anti-social after hours types! I will suck it up and find time to call tomorrow though. I've got a list of stuff I need...

 

[Robert Kenney]

More on the syncros, deglaze the steel taper that the syncro ring rides on. I use 600 wd paper. I try to achive a fine ground finish so the ring grips better.

 

[Mastiff]

Isn't it pretty? They "baked" my trans and t-case cases like an engine block.

 

[Mastiff]

Well, the t-case is mostly back together all the gears and bearings are in and doing their thing. A question about the front/rear output seals: my kit came with some gaskets for this as well as normal seals (shown in the diagram in the manual, #28). Thing is, the seals are open on one side (the lip side) and I would expect that open side to go inward. If I do that, it doesn't look like the seal will contact the gasket though. What am I missing?

Edit: a related question,the gasket set also has a rear bearing cap gasket. This is where the shims go. I don't think I had a gasket before, anyone ever heard of using a gasket? It seems slightly pointless because it will only seal one spot, not between the shims and not between the shims and the cap. I already have my end play dialed in so I'm wondering if I should bother with the gasket.

 

[Michael Mayben]

There are many variations of the setups on the d18/d20 series cases over the years. Some used a shim stack and gaskets to set bearing preload, some did not. I prefer to use the shim stack and the gasket, the gasket itself takes the position of a shim when compressed.

The seal does not contact the gasket or shims, only the od of the seal case seals it to the bearing retainer, the sealing element seals to the rotating shaft.

Same for the seals, they were originally actually "rawhide" (leather sealing element), and were later replaced by synthetic rubber seal systems during/after wwii. The seal lip always points towards the liquid side (or the side to trying to keep the liquid in and the external contaminants out!). Some seal have two lips that face the same way, some have lips that point opposite directions as an aid to excluding external contaminates like water, sand, mud, slush, etc.

 

[Mastiff]

Check out this picture:

http://www.willystech.com/wt/model18tcase/photos/partsbreakdown.jpg

I'm wondering about #33, since I have it available. If the seal (#5) were closed on the side to the case it could seat against that gasket, but it's not, it's open. Either I'm missing something or the people didn't think it through when they compiled this kit.

 

[Robert Kenney]

I didn't use it on mine. Only the lipped oil seal and the felt outside of that.

Jeep and IH are not always the same and all parts will not be applicable.