throttle position question

R

ross

New member
I'm a new Scout owner 1980 Scout II. I bought it at auction so no test drive or close inspection. It dose not have origional engine should be 345 got 304. Has IH holly 2 barel carb date code 1971 compleat with manual choke. Truck runs well would not down shift at all. Discoverd no tp linkage at all on truck. Bought lokar cable kit. Found a shaft leaver at local scrap yard and after studying lots of pics fabed a new throttle shaft arm. My question is should there be a spring or some thing to pull tp shaft back to forward position. Right know it stays where ever you move it to. If I turn it by hand it stays were I leav it. And lokar cable only pulls it back but will not return it forward. I have not started truck since installing cable because I have starter out to be rebuilt. Dont know if shaft will return forward atomaticly if truck is running. Just wondering if I need a return spring or if something internal is wrong or if it will return on its own once truck is running.
 
Ok still have no shift. Put truck in drive stomp on it stays it stays in 3rd. I can manually shift smoothly thru all 3. When I shift to 1 at bottom of hill atstanding start tromp on it and shift thru it emedietly shifts as I shift. Dont know how long it May have been drove with out tp linkage before I got it every thing I read says that is bad. How much movement should I get on tp leaver from full one way to the other. Thought tp was problem now I'm not sure that is my only problem. Adjusted lokar tp cable longer shorter more throw less throw ect. Ect. Fluid level topped of looks nice an clean. Looks and smells new. Any ideas.
 
I have no experience with a lokar cable for actuating the throttle valve. If you had the factory rod linkage, I'd have no problem describing the adjustment procedure. At wide open throttle, the throttle valve down at the trans should be forced rearward nearly all the way with only a minor amount of play left. It should return to static position when the throttle is closed.
 
Welcome
I have used lokar products in the past. From my understanding is that with out any interaction of the throttle while it sits at rest not being used, the lokar cable should have a little slack. I'm currently stumped as to the exact measurement. Seems to be roughly a 1/4" of slack. These ole IH pigs are slugs on the highway. Great for off-roading, but won't win ya anything on the race track. With that being said, try easing into the throttle on your next road test.
 
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I adjusted the cable so at wide open throttle it pulled tp leaver fully rearward than then gave just a hair of slack so it was not hard against stop at full throttle as per instructions.
Still have no auto shift at all. Put it in drive it starts out in 3rd stays in 3rd.
 
With the wildcard of the cable, I'm reluctant to jump to any conclusions as to the internal health of your trans. If you had the stock rod adjusted properly and the trans was misbehaving in this manner, I would be suspicious that something was wrong inside. Just too many variables to go there right now, however, even with no tv connection at all, a 727 should still start out from a dead stop in 1st and progressively upshift from 1-2-d from there, albeit the shifts will happen very quickly and at a low road speed.
 
At a dead stop start it is in 3rd. If I hand shift I can tell. I get no breakout. Power at all in drive.
At wide open throttle the cable pulls tp leaver rearword.
 
Well if all that is true, maybe it is time to jump to suspect that something May be wrong inside the trans. Perhaps with your valve body or governor or both.
 
I ordered a rebuild manual. Will be a week or 2 before I will have time to pull it and shop space. Right now its in drive way under several inches of snow. Do you think there is any thing I could see with out removing it from truck or should I just break down and pull it? I have never rebuilt an auto trans so I am sure I will have some questions for you all. Thanks for the help.
 
Is your book on order the a727 handbook by carl munroe? That's a great reference bible. The Scout II factory service manual available from IHPA has a pretty extensive section on overhauling the 727 as well. There are others that will get the job done too.
An auto trans is basically a hydraulic pump, so pressure readings taken at the various test port locations in various gear positions at various engine speeds can provide valuable insight as to the overall internal condition of the unit as well as help isolate potential problem area(s).
There are some diagnostic pressure tests included in most service literature that are to be performed with the trans still in the rig. If you have access to or want to purchase the proper diagnostic gear consisting of at least one 300 psi wet gauge, 8 feet of hose, an npt hose barb fitting, a handheld tachometer, and two jack stands to get the rear wheels off the ground, you can take appropriate pressure readings and compare them to the specs in the service literature. A couple years ago, I built myself a two gauge pressure testing rig from an extra set of old oxy/acet gauges and hose lengths that I had just occupying space on a shelf in my garage. I've used them several times since then to great effect.
You could drop the fluid pan, make a nasty red fluid mess and maybe see something obviously amiss inside...or maybe not. Even if you did, the chances of you being able to repair the problem with the trans still in the rig are slim. In my previous post I mentioned a suspicion of either a governor or a valve body issue perhaps being responsible for the symptoms you're experiencing. Both the governor and the valve body can be removed from the trans without removing the trans itself from the rig. However, even if you were able to successfully diagnose and isolate your issue to either the governor or the valve body, there could still be other issues on the verge of cropping up that cannot be dealt with in any way besides a full blown overhaul. If you had knowledge of maintenance history that led you to believe the trans had been overhauled recently, that would be one thing. From what I gather, under the circumstances in which you purchased this Scout, you likely have little if any idea as to what items have been serviced and when. Sometimes the only way to know for sure what you're dealing with is to start from square one.
 
Whether or not the lokar setup is correct, that won't have anything to do with your issue. It will adjust shift points but it won't eliminate gears completely unless something else is going on.

If I'm reading this right, you can shift fine manually, meaning the clutches and bands are at least functional.

Sounds like it's time for a valve body cleaning to me. New fluid, new filter, fresh band adjustment.

I'd probably start with a pressure check as scoutboy describes , at least at the governor. However, assuming you don't have the equipment for that, I would do the above. Might be an easier fix than you think! Valve body has to be nice and clean!

Jason
 
Got my monroe book yesterday the a727 one. Hope fully will get truck in side latter this week and start by checking valve body. Think I have old torch gauges like Scout boy recommended still working on a tack ill let you all know what I find thanks for the help
 
Good for you! The munroe book is tops for messing with these trannies. I don't have a pic of my gauge rig at the moment. Maybe later I can come up with one for you. But basically what I did was I took a piece of flat metal roughly 1 inch wide by 6, maybe 8 inches long and bored three holes in it, one in the center and the others outboard of that on both ends. In the center hole I mounted a hook with bolt threads so I can hang the beeyotch up. I then mounted a gauge on either side of the hook through the outboard holes. One gauge is 100 psi and the other is 400. I use the 100 gauge for measuring the lower pressure outputs such as the governor, front servo and line pressure ports. I save the high readout gauge for connecting to the rear servo port. Most of the readings encountered will be under a 100 psi, but the one reading that should be well north of there is the rear servo with the gear selector in reverse. That should be in the upper 200 psi range only when in reverse. You can take all of these readings with one 300 psi gauge, but you're doing a lot of slithering in and out from under the rig to connect, disconnect and reconnect the gauge hose to the various test ports. A minor amount of fluid will dribble out of each port while you have a bolt plug removed to install or remove a hose barb fitting, so be prepared for some minor red mess. Having two gauges cuts your pita slither factor in half. Having an easy way to differentiate the hoses while you're under the rig, like colors is a good idea too. Three gauges to hook up at once would be even more guuder, but that is a real luxury. Remember to safely and securely provide adequate daylight under both rear wheels so they can spin freely. Also make damn certain that your front axle isn't engaged.

Oh, and if you have dual exhaust all the way back, you'll definitely want to let the rig cool down before you start wedging your hands up into tight spaces to wrench on plug bolts...hot!!! Things are pretty tight under the sii with the narrow trans hump. The test ports are much easier to access on a full size rig by comparison.
 
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