The journey of the build . . .

[overdrivesteve]

Hi,
this thread is intended to initially cover the build up of my '65 loasdstar's drive train. Eventual plans are to set my '62 travelette fenders, cab and bed onto the frame of this loadstar. The hoped-for result will be a strong truck I can take off-road camping anywhere from the alaskan wilderness to the beaches of florida. This thread is the journey of my attempt to accomplish that goal. Time will tell if I succeed. I still have some very significant challenges to overcome which I'll share with you as they impact my build.

This thread will include part numbers and sources of information concerning primarily the medium duty IH truck. But this thread is intended to be more than just the resto/mod of a truck, it is also intended to be a little bit of IH history I discover along the way. For example, everyone knows IH built trucks, but does everyone also know IH built aerial torpedoes and the torpedoes used by the pt boats of wwii? The Mark vii torpedo "was one of the most complicated and difficult weapons of wwii to build, containing 5,222 individual parts and 1,225 assemblies". Here's a few related pics:
International Harvester in world war two /wwii

Any info or pics you find relating to IH medium duty trucks or IH history, please post them to this thread. I like little hijacks.

My story begins a couple years ago with the purchase of my first ever IH truck, a 62 travelette. Here's the thread to the beginning of that truck's build:
http://forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/readers-rides/9479-62-crew-cab-4x4-restoration-project.html

I knew nothing of IH trucks at that time. All I knew is that I wanted a large, heavy duty, pre-California smog regulated 4x4. That began my IH journey. I'm not finished with that truck, but will return to it later, as it approaches time to put it on top of my loadstar's chassis.

Now for the story of this build . . .

The travelette's drive train just did not seem quit strong enough for my intended purposes. That little knuckle Dana 44 and small brakes would not give me peace of mind solo off-road in the wilderness or pulling a large trailer downhill on a long, steep mountain pass.

I thought about upgrading to Dana 70 axles. But then there was still the steering to upgrade, then reinforcing the frame, then the suspension, etc. Basically another entire parts doner truck was needed.

So about a year ago I purchased this loadstar in nebraska.

Here'a a picture of the truck in nebraska as it waits for its trip to sunny southern California:

.

per the line setting tickets it has the same wheel base as my travelette, the same 304 v8 engine, the same 4 speed trans, and by measuring, the same frame width . so rather than trying to swap axles, springs, spring perches, steering, etc etc over to the travelette, I've decided it would be better to just swap the travelette's cab over to the loadstar .

but then the company I work for cut everyone's pay to near minimum wage as the union began negotiating a new contract . the loadstar sat in nebraska for the next year as union contract negotiations dragged on .

finally a couple months ago a new contract was ratified within hours of going on strike . but there was no compensation for working a year at minimum wage .

then began the next leg of this journey looking for someone to transport the truck from nebraska to southern California .

I posted transport wanted ads in this forum, and at yesterday's tractors[/url ] , [url=http://www.steelsoldiers.com/]steel soldirs[/url ] , [url=http://www.redpowermagazine.com/forums/]red power magazine[/url ] , [url=http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/]pirate4x4.com[/url ] , [url=http://oldihc.org/phpbb3/index.php]oldihc[/url ] , [url=http://scoutswest.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum.php]scouts west[/url ] and [url=http://www.uship.com/truck-transport/]uship.com[/url ] , in addition to calling a lot of transport companies listed on the internet .

a word of advice about using transport companies found on the internet - many are good but some are real crooks . one told me he would transport my truck no problem, but charged my credit card twice the agreed-upon deposit amount . immediately after giving him my deposit via credit card, I checked his reviews - which were beyond terrible . I immediately called the credit card company to stop payment, and learned he had not only charged twice the agreed-upon deposit, but charged my credit card a second time for another $950.00 . fortunately the credit card company put a stop payment on everything .

I suggest to always check the feedback here on any transport company you consider using:
[url=http://www.transportreviews.com/company/auto-shipping-group-inc.asp]transport reviews.com[/url ]

because it was winter, and the truck was over-sized, and it did not reliably run, in the end the only responses I had came from u-ship.com and pirate4x4.com .

u-ship estimates were all over-priced, but I finally used a company found on pirate 4x4, Joe at beeline trucking, 530-526-3745 . he has 4 trucks, two semi's and two hot shot rigs . my truck was put on a 40 ft trailer pulled by a 1 ton Ford . price was fair (much cheaper than any from u-ship) and it was less than a week from the time I first contacted him to the day my truck was delivered . I highly recommend him .

fwiw he got into the trucking business as a way to move his beehives around the country .

just thought I'd share in case someone else is ever looking to have something transported .

the truck arrived very early morning on December 12th, 2014, during one of the worse rainstorms southern calif has had in years . within 3 blocks of where I was to meet the driver with my truck, my car was rear-ended hard - again .

I was in pain, I was cold, and very wet, so I did not get many pictures of the delivery . but below are a few of the pictures I do have .

here's a picture of the truck about to be unloaded . notice the rain water pouring off the short running board:
http://forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/attachments/readers-rides/26356d1420162029-journey-build-dec_15_14-058.jpg[/img ]
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Another picture of the truck about to be unloaded:
[img]http://forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/attachments/readers-rides/26358d1420162112-journey-build-dec_15_14-055.jpg
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not much room to spare on that 40 ft trailer:
http://forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/attachments/readers-rides/26359d1420162112-journey-build-dec_15_14-054.jpg[/img ]
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A picture of the truck now perched up ready for work to begin:
[img]http://forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/attachments/readers-rides/26360d1420162713-journey-build-dec_15_14-045.jpg
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another pic of the truck as it now sits:
http://forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/attachments/readers-rides/26361d1420162713-journey-build-dec_15_14-039.jpg[/img ]
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Just a typical old loadstar of the 60's:
[img]http://forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/attachments/readers-rides/26362d1420162713-journey-build-dec_15_14-034.jpg
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I will continue the story of the journey of this build at a later time .

here's wishing you all a happy new year !

steve
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[mikeindustries]

First off, thank you! I am a union pipefitter. It's strong union people like you that make it possible for union workers to be able to care for there families and to have hobbies like mine and yours. We sacrifice wages today so that we May provide tomorrow. I wish more americans would make this stand. I commend you. Thank you!

I look forward to this journey. As I also endeavor to build an International that can go anywhere and do anything, I am more than willing to help in any way I can. Your truck is going to be awesome. I can see it now.

Lemme know if I can help! I'm close.

Btw....any relation to "scubasteve"? Lol

 

[jeff campbell]

I know a "scuba steve " here in my town, was a diver in the bahama's lol, steve I have service manual, if you need anything,parts book, info ! Jeff

 

[overdrivesteve]

first off, thank you! I am a union pipefitter. It's strong union people like you that make it possible for union workers to be able to care for there families and to have hobbies like mine and yours. We sacrifice wages today so that we May provide tomorrow. I wish more americans would make this stand. I commend you. Thank you!

I look forward to this journey. As I also endeavor to build an International that can go anywhere and do anything, I am more than willing to help in any way I can. Your truck is going to be awesome. I can see it now.

Lemme know if I can help! I'm close.

Btw....any relation to "scubasteve"? Lol

Hi,

thank you for the compliment, and yes, I do need a lot of help. Primarily, initially I just need someone to look over the truck, bounce ideas off of, and help me formulate a plan of action. I've only restored two trucks in my life, and have never removed a cab, and especially have never done a cab or body swap before.

I really don't know what I May have got myself into. But there is an old saying, "how does one eat an elephant? One bite at a time".

At one time I was planning to pay a IH specialty fabrication shop in acton for help with anything I can't do, but the last I heard his shop suffered a major fire and he is now moving to Arizona.

I have the complete original shop service manual for the loadstar, cts-2300, but it covers very specific assemblies, not complete systems. I also have the original complete master parts book, mt-112, if that helps.

But yes, I more than welcome the help from anyone. There are a couple things I have not been able to figure out on the travelette, such as how to remove the steering column. It's one piece from the steering box to the steering wheel. I do have a multi-shaft (not sure the correct terminology to use) from a '68 IH pickup ready to bolt into it's place. That upgrade was necessary to mate with the steering box in the loadstar.

Picture of the one-piece steering column:

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picture of the pedal assembly, unrestored . I don't have a current pic of it restored with the steering column, but you can kind of get the idea . I also don't have the new power brake booster or master cylinder as I don't yet know the bore of the loadstar m/c . I want to keep them the same for best brake performance . this is a direct bolt-in into my travelette's cab, and a necessary upgrade to mate with the loadstar brake, clutch and steering systems .
http://forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/attachments/readers-rides/21296d1381468251-62-crew-cab-4x4-restoration-project-set_7a-424.jpg[/img ]

but yes, I need lots of help . and I plan to get started as soon as the weather gets a bit warmer .

how close are you to van nuys ?

btw - no relation to scubasteve lol .

thank you .

steve

 

[jeff campbell]

I do know the 2wd column is all 1 piece ! Must be removed w/gearbox.Jeff

 

[overdrivesteve]

I know a "scuba steve " here in my town, was a diver in the bahama's lol, steve I have service manual, if you need anything,parts book, info ! Jeff

Yes, I'll need lots of help and info. I May need a couple clutch parts too, but so far that is all I know I will need.
But first, have to figure out how to remove the truck cabs.

Thanks.

Steve

 

[overdrivesteve]

I do know the 2wd column is all 1 piece ! Must be removed w/gearbox.Jeff

How do I remove that in the travelette? And is it one piece in the loadstar too?

The l'star had some type of bell assembly on the steering shaft immediately above the steering box. I have a power steering box that supposedly came from a '65 l'star 1700 I was told is a direct bolt-in. But have not confirmed it's fit.

Steve

 

[jeff campbell]

Loadstar is not a 1 piece unit, unbolt it at the gear box.,there was different boxes for them according to the front axle an such. 4wd or shud say 6whl drive,May be all by itself, look in your parts manual. Jeff

 

[mikeindustries]

I am about 2 hours south of you. I maybe leaving town for work. Will have to see what happens but would love to come up and lend a hand. I will pm you when I know whats gunna happen.

 

[punjig]

first off, thank you! I am a union pipefitter. It's strong union people like you that make it possible for union workers to be able to care for there families and to have hobbies like mine and yours. We sacrifice wages today so that we May provide tomorrow. I wish more americans would make this stand. I commend you. Thank you!

I look forward to this journey. As I also endeavor to build an International that can go anywhere and do anything, I am more than willing to help in any way I can. Your truck is going to be awesome. I can see it now.

Lemme know if I can help! I'm close.

Btw....any relation to "scubasteve"? Lol

I commend you also, I too am a union worker. I am a power lineman for the International brotherhood of electrical workers.
So I understand at times we put our projects on hold as labor disputes need settled. Families come first.

With that being said, this build is going to be a good one. I can't wait to see how it ends up. Also all of the trial and error, gives us all ideas and how to overcome things that don't work. I will be following this one!

 

[IHRunner]

Looking good steve. Love them loadies

 

[overdrivesteve]

Oil, oil filters and adapters:

thank you everyone for your replies.
It’s been raining all weekend therefore unable to accomplish anything on my truck. So just thought I’d post some part numbers for any newbies like me who are working on an old truck like this for the first time.

My truck’s engine came with a canister oil filter, as seen in this pdf link:
http://forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/at...6893-spin-oil-filter-conversion-engines-3.pdf

It will be upgraded to a spin-on filter. That is accomplished with either one of two bases. The ones used in scouts are usually the angled base, p/n 919782r91 and it comes with stud p/n 920068r1. This has a thread of 3/4 – 16 and this p/n originally came with an oil filter.
The other base is p/n 918267r3 and the filter points straight down. It usually comes with stud p/n 436922c1 with thread 1 x 12 but without an oil filter. The studs are interchangeable so you can use either in either base plate, allowing the use (space permitting) of any spin-on filter type.

I bought a spin-on oil filter adapter base here. They had this one in stock but it wasn't on their web site as they don’t get them in very often. For old parts like this you just need to call and ask. Adapter shown below.

They both use the same base gasket, p/n 860363r4. From what I’ve read, this gasket should be put on dry.

Haven’t decided if I’m going to install the adapter now or when the engine is rebuilt. If installed before the rebuild, I’ll use wix oil filter p/n 51459 and after the rebuild, the more expensive baldwin oil filter, p/n b7311-mpg. While waiting a few months for delivery of my first IH truck, I did extensive research into oil filters for these sv v8 engines. For a list of all recommended oil filters, see the tables at the bottom of this page:
http://forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/ba...there-different-grades-wix-oil-filters-2.html
Suggest reading that entire thread.

Regarding recommended oil. Although researched heavily, I’m no chemist so must defer to the experts here, and to lots of current testimonials. Although shell’s rotella and chevron’s delo oils were specified and used by IH dealers for these engines originally, it's unknown if they have the same formulation they had 50 years ago. So I’ll be using the swepco 306 15w40 oil in my engine. It’s more than just backwards compatible, it’s actually made for these old, flat-tappet engines.

And for the divorced transfer case and axles, it will be the 80w140 swepco 210 gear oil. But not sure it will be my choice of oil for the transmission. Years ago I test drove a trans that had 90w140 ep oil in it, and it was very hard to shift – felt like there wasn't enough friction to allow the syncroes to engage. I’ll try this oil in the trans too, but if I find shifting difficult, it'll be replaced with the 90w gear oil recommended for the transmission, and an update posted here.

And as for the enclosed steering knuckles, I’m unsure of the proper oil/grease to use in that. It’s supposed to be very thick, but not so thick it doesn't flow. It’s supposed to be thin enough to seep enough to keep the trunion yoke (ball) surface from rusting, but not so thin it leaks out. If it meets this requirement, then it’s also thin enough to seep in and keep the axle u-joints lubricated and splash enough to keep the upper king pin bushing lubricated.

That’s my post for now, but if you have any recommendations or experience on the type of grease used in enclosed knuckle assemblies, I’d appreciate hearing from you. Here’s a discussion on this grease:
moses ludel's 4wd mechanix magazine - Jeep 4wd closed knuckle axle lubricants

And here are some notes and unverified information I have about this grease:
shaffer, amsoil, valvoline and mobil all make semi fluid ep grease products that will work for this application. Most are mining and industrial applications. Penrite has a product that is for old cars and motorcycles. Unfortunately swepco 113-00 semi-fluid grease only comes in a 6 gallon bucket. Nlgi 0 grease is also available from companies like grainger and mcmaster car, p/n 1208k1 or red termaline ngli #0 under 1372k12 (water resistant). John deer corn head grease is also sometimes used. Using bel ray ngli #0 126, push one 14oz cartridge in each closed knuckle upon servicing.

The closed knuckle axle's require a very low viscosity grease. Nlgi 0 per ihc spec. People have been known to mix grease and gear oil to approximate nlgi 0 but it will separate and leak out.

A grease's number defines it's grade or consistency, and it can run from #000(syrup consistency) to #6 (tar like)
sodium grease in the #0 form was used at the factory for initial fill.

I hope the info in this post is of help to someone someday.

Thanks.
Steve

part needed to convert from canister to spin-on oil filter:

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part numbers:
base adapter - 918267r3
stud - 920068r1
gasket - 860363r4
engine oil - swepco 306 15w40
transfer case / axle oil - swepco 210 80w140
enclosed knuckle oil - #0 brand undetermined at this time
engine oil filter - wix 51459 ; baldwin b7311-mpg
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[overdrivesteve]

This past weekend I finally had a chance to look things over and take stock of the situation I've got myself into.

The l'star oil bath air cleaner was just so disgusting with it's lumpy, multi-colored goop above the thick layer of sludge, it had to go. So I transferred the l'star paper air filter from my travelette to the loadstar.

Some preliminary measurements:
from the ground to the top of the air cleaner in the t'ette it was 51 inches.
From the ground to the top of the air cleaner in the loadstar it was 60 inches. So despite the bigger wheels and taller frame rail, the truck will sit less than ten inches taller, which is acceptable to me. I did not want it to sit higher than the pictures of the two trucks below, and I think I will accomplish that goal.

The radiator was empty as were the clutch and master cylinders. Filled, I managed to start the engine after several tries to get the starter to engage. I let it idle for over half an hour. No overheating, no coolant leaks, and no unusual bad noises coming from the engine. The po installed a sw mechanical oil pressure gauge. The oil pressure reading was 50 psi on cold start-up and 10 psi at hot idle. The odometer reading is 73,800 miles, but as it was from a working corn farm, it could be the equivalent of much higher with hours of idling and slow driving through the fields. It does seep oil everywhere. But I'll address the issue of an engine rebuild more toward the end of the project as that can quickly become very costly.

I also noticed the distributor's vacuum can is connected directly to the manifold instead of the side of the carb. Is that normal for high gvw vehicles?
The journey continues . . .

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the only picture I have of the old oil bath air cleaner . great for a museum restoration, but not an otr driver .
http://forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/attachments/readers-rides/26440d1421698613-journey-build-dec_28_2014-020.jpg[/img ]
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Engine with the new l'star paper air filter:
[img]http://forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/attachments/readers-rides/26439d1421698031-journey-build-loadstar-1.jpg
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picture of some other truck with the desired stance:
http://forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/attachments/axle-tech-questions/20736d1375824419-c120-vs-c1500-axles-conversion-image004.jpg[/img ]
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Another picture of some other truck with the desired stance:
[img]http://forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/attachments/readers-rides/26441d1421698742-journey-build-__360_240_54-r140-4x4-7-8-03-004.jpg
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part numbers:
air filter housing - IH 998-228-c91
air filter 11.6 " - IH 446-661-c2 ; wix 46255 ; baldwin pa2092 ; baldwin with foam wrap pa2115
optional air filter 12.6" - IH 446661-c1, 446910-c1 ; wix 42697 & wrap 24713 ; baldwin pa2061
pcv filter - k & n 1 1/4 " p/n 62-1490 - perfect fit on filler tube
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[overdrivesteve]

Line setting ticket

every journey needs a beginning so this project begins with determining what I have and what I should have.

The way to determine what the truck came with originally is by its line setting ticket. These can sometimes be found on a door post, inside, behind or on top of the glove box, or attached to a sun visor. If not, for vehicles manufactured in the u.s.a. That information can also be obtained from the wisconsin historical society. They now hold all the vintage files of IH including LST info, specification sheets, brochures, advertising pieces, manuals, IH published magazines, etc. I've had several extensive conversations with them by phone. Although they have a lot of IH info on their web site, most of what they have IH related is not online, and can only be viewed by going there in person. Fortunately that's not the case with their LST info.
As an unfortunate side note, all the files of the canadian division of IH were given to a university (I don't recall which one) which promptly threw them all away. So if you have a canadian manufactured IH vehicle, it's not too likely you will find any specific info regarding your particular vehicle.

Here is this loadstar's LST :

loadstar 1600 4x4 LST pdf page 1

And

loadstar 1600 4x4 LST pdf page 2

The first line states the model is a 1600 4x4, the wheelbase is 139 inches, and the gvw is 15,000 pounds. The chassis number is sb552413e and the engine serial number is 343704.
Other notable specs include a 304 v8, t18 4 speed trans with 13 in clutch, fa-58 front axle with 6.16 ratio, ra-25 rear axle with 6.17 ratio, and tc-155 2-speed transfer case.

And basically that is what I got, except the frame has been stretched about two feet. And that is ok with me as it just means I will need to put on a standard bed with my travelette's cab rather than my t'ette's short bed.

The service manual that applies to my truck is the cts-2300 and the parts manual is the mt-112.

From time to time I will update this post with any other specs I come across and/or pages I scan from either book above. Hopefully in the next post I will graduate from the research phase to actually working on the truck.

Steve
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Pdf files:
- line set ticket: specs - page 1
- line set ticket: inspections - page 2
Service manueal: cts-2300
parts manual: mt-112
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Transfer case service pdf:
tc-155 service, see page 1016: unable to upload at this time
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Front axle parts pdf:
- index: front axle parts index
- axle diagram and part numbers: front axle diagram
- front axle part numbers: remaining part numbers
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brake part numbers pdf:
- brake lines and fittings: brake lines and hoses[/url ]
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[overdrivesteve]

When it rains ... It pours

all work on my trucks has come to a temporary standstill.

A-an mri confirms the damage to my neck from the auto accident I mention in my first posting of this build,

b-my job has cut my hours, and therefore my pay,

c-I was just given notice by my landlord that I have to move out because she is going to have her sister and family from south of the border move in,

d-and my daily driver honda civic has an un-diagnosed problem - it will only start if it's hot or cold. When it's warm, it won't start. For example, I can drive it to work just fine, and drive it home after work ok, or if I drive it to the gas station it will usually, usually start as it has not had time to cool down any. But go to a grocery store, for example, do some shopping, then try to start it to go home, it usually won't start. The starter will just crank and crank with no engine spark at all. I must wait between a half and 3 hours for it to get stone cold again, then it will instantly start and run with no problem.
So far the cap and rotor have been replaced, along with the igniter, and coil, and relay assembly on the wall under the glove box. All these parts are insanely expensive, and have not helped the problem at all.

And unfortunately I don't have the time to rebuild the master cylinder seals on my travelette or money to replace the master cylinder, so that truck's brakes and clutch is inoperable at this time.

So until I handle these challenges, not much more actual work will be done on either truck. I May continue to post research I do for this build, but that's about all for now. I was looking forward to getting into some of the more substantial repairs. Oh well, what a journey . . .
Here's a couple final pictures of the truck.
Thank you, everyone, for your help and advice.
Steve
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http://forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/attachments/readers-rides/26795d1424639131-journey-build-dsci0151.jpg[/img ]
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