t-18 t-19 trans swap

[IbRamblin]

So I acquired this four speed trans that appears to be a t-18. I want to swap it for the trans that my 72 Scout had when I bought it, which I believe is a t-19. Im pretty sure the transfer case is a Dana spicer 20. There is a plate in between the old trans and transfer case. Is it an adapter plate?...spacer? Does this plate need to be utilized with the new trans? I can only locate the transmission to transfer case gasket. If I need to use that plate, theres a second gasket that I cant locate. Please help! Thanks

heres a video of what I have going on

youtube - trans.mpg

 

[IbRamblin]

I would also like to rebuild the transmission that I pulled out of the truck. Can someone please advise me of proper identification for these things. I checked out the novak website and that helped a little bit but pretty much told me only that it was definately a t-18 or t-19. I understand that International made a few variations of these transmissions also. All casting number and tags have legible writtings, but novak, when I called, said those dont really mean anything. Plus they only deal with Jeep. Please help save this transmission from ending up being used to hold the floor down in my garage

 

[Michael Mayben]

Great video explanation of what you are working with!!!!

I'm certainly not an expert on the t-18/t-19 hierarchy but I am dealing with a very similar situation now.

The novak information is probably the best reference out there, I've done some work on trying to write up something similar regarding only IH apps, but have not really gotten very far with that.

The transfer case adapter you point out will fit either trans and you must use it to mount the d20 (or a d18 tc to the azzend of either transmission.

The pic attached is a t18 from a Scout 800 four cylinder application (note the pancake bell housing), that shows that same transfer case adapter.

The only true way of making a positive id on this stuff is remove the shifter top and look inside or tear 'em down)! Ass the novak info suggests, many of the cases and shifter tops were used indiscriminately on this stuff over the years!

Also, the orange tranny in your video shows a metal tag under one of the shifter retainer bolts on the driver side, post the numbers on that tag which will more positively id that transmission. Then look closely for a similar tag on the other unit. That tag will have the bom number from warner gear, along with an IH part number or code, then we can look that up for ya.

The main difference between the two units, the t18 is a non-synchro first gear, the t-19 is full synchro for all forward gears.

As to "close ratio" vs. "wide ratio", pull the shifter top and look at the first gear diameter/tooth count, the wide ratio unit has quite a few more teeth than the close ratio as that gear is a much "lower" ratio.

Also, make certain that the bull gear that is currently on the tranny is a proper match for the transfer case. The bull gear has a spicer p/n stamped on it, so do all the gears in the d20. Use the novak guide to match the part numbers. It's very common that folks are running around with the wrong bull gear setup! The spline count is easy to see! But the pitch angle of the helical-cut teeth can't normally be detected unless you have each type gear side-by-side! Using a flashlight and a mirror, you can barely read the spicer p/n on the mating gear inside the transfer case when it's removed from the tranny.

 

[Michael Mayben]

I would also like to rebuild the transmission that I pulled out of the truck. Can someone please advise me of proper identification for these things. I checked out the novak website and that helped a little bit but pretty much told me only that it was definately a t-18 or t-19. I understand that International made a few variations of these transmissions also. All casting number and tags have legible writtings, but novak, when I called, said those dont really mean anything. Plus they only deal with Jeep. Please help save this transmission from ending up being used to hold the floor down in my garage

The actual "rebuild kit" for either t18 or t19 is the same part. All the bearings/seals interchange, it's only the synchros, some gears, etc. That are different. Ihon can supply you with the correct rebuild kit for whichever tranny you decide to do.

 

[IbRamblin]

So the bom tag on the old transmision reads:

464420-c91
13-09-026

I hope that helps us identify the trans so that I can get the right rebuild kit. If I have to take it apart to know for sure I will. I have the service manual which gives a good explanation of the teardown and rebuild on these trannys. I will however need to know what it is im looking for... Teeth count, ect.

I will also need to know how to get my hands on the gaskets that go on both sides of that plate in between the trans and transfer case (so I can mate the new tranny with the old Dana 20). That is probably the more important thing seeing as how this is my only way around town beside my bicycle.

Thank you for your help michael, I certainly appreciate it!

 

[Michael Mayben]

so the bom tag on the old transmision reads:

464420-c91
13-09-026

I hope that helps us identify the trans so that I can get the right rebuild kit. If I have to take it apart to know for sure I will. I have the service manual which gives a good explanation of the teardown and rebuild on these trannys. I will however need to know what it is im looking for... Teeth count, ect.

I will also need to know how to get my hands on the gaskets that go on both sides of that plate in between the trans and transfer case (so I can mate the new tranny with the old Dana 20). That is probably the more important thing seeing as how this is my only way around town beside my bicycle.

Thank you for your help michael, I certainly appreciate it!

Regarding the transmission that the bom tag you posted refers to...you got treasure dude!

That would be IH code 13427/model t-427 warner gear tranny aka "t-19"...and it's a wide ratio unit, very desirable! Likely application is a Scout II, m/y '75 and later.

The gasket between the tranny and the tc adapter should be part of the overhaul master kit for the trans. The "texas pattern" gasket is supplied in the master gasket/seal kit for the d20 transfer case. Either gasket is also easily made from standard 1/32" composite (rubber/fiber) gasket paper. Never, don't ever use rtv in place of those gaskets!!! The gaskets actually serve as "shims" and must be used. Rtv has no place around these transmissions/transfer cases!

A typical rebuild kit for a t-18 is the same as the t-19 except ya don't use one of the synchros, but also, there was/is a difference sometimes in the "thickness" of the input and output shaft ball bearings, ya really need to tear it down and see which bearings you have.

Having that bom tag makes all the difference in making positive id on this stuff! Otherwise, it's a crap shoot until ya get it laid out on the bench! That "13-09-026" is the warner part number for the entire assembly as it was supplied to ihc for the production line.

 

['71 800b]

Can the adapter between the transmission and transfercase be removed and another installed to mate a np203 or NP205????

 

[Michael Mayben]

can the adapter between the transmission and transfercase be removed and another installed to mate a np203 or NP205????

Maybe??

I've never tried this, I'm only throwing out suggestions to verify...

Yes, the transfer case adapter for the d18/d20 on the rear of the transmission case is easily removed. That allowed a 2x4 tailhousing to bolt directly to the trans which can handle an output shaft bearing mounted in the tailhousing and allowing for use with either a slip yoke or a bolt-on yoke.

However, I have no idea if there was ever an adapter for a t18/t19 ihc-pattern output shaft to mate to a married NP205 as IH never used that combination. Ford did, but those are a driver-side drop to the front axle. Dodge used the passenger side drop married NP205 on the 727 applications, I don't know about their manual transmission combos though.

 

['71 800b]

If I remember right.... Mocha Mike used a Ford 205 flipped over on a Chevy trans..... Could it be possible the round pattern is the same for both? Now I need to go back and look at his write up, I think he used a doubler setup so there was something else between the 205 and the trans...........