Starter Woes

[bindermike]

I posted this on 4btswaps; getting some looks, but no responses. I could really use some help. Thanks, Mike


I'm putting a 4bta and zf6-650 into my '68 International pickup. Destroked adapter. South bend clutch and flywheel.

Engine is in (no radiator yet) and I'm trying to get it started.

Start try #1: brand new 6.0 powerstroke starter from pa perfomance (as per destroked recommendation); one optima battery; 2/0 welding cables for battery cables. I used a short jumper wire to trigger the starter. I got one crank cycle (for about 2-3 seconds). On the second try, the starter stuck. Starter motor running, but not engaging the flywheel. Disconnected battery to stop it. Check continuity on starter solenoid and it was stuck (welded?). Removed starter and solenoid. Cycled it in/out a couple of times, and it was no longer stuck. Put it back together and reinstalled. Same thing starter stuck running but not engaging flywheel.

Start try #2: brand new duralast 6.0 powerstroke starter from autozone; one optima battery; 2/0 welding cables for battery cables. I connected a remote push button switch so I could bleed injectors while cranking. I got one crank cycle (for 10 seconds) with all injector lines loose. Getting fuel to injectors. On the second try, starter solenoid would click and nothing would happen. Hit the button a couple more times, and nothing. Noticed my starter push button was getting warm. It seems like the starter solenoid pulls a lot of juice to trigger.

Start try #3: same starter from start try #2; two new autozone 65-agm batteries; 2/0 welding cables for battery cables. I thought maybe the starter solenoid wasn't getting enough juice to trigger properly, so I installed new starter relay (mounted on firewall) to trigger the starter solenoid. Used #6 awg wire from battery up to hot side of relay; #10 awg wire back down to trigger terminal on starter solenoid. Push button switch to trigger starter relay. One test crank to see if everything was working. Seemed ok. Second crank cycle for about 20 seconds while trying to bleed injectors. Third crank cycle; firewall relay clicked and starter didn't crank. Hit the button again and starter lurched for less than one revolution of the engine. Hit the button again and only the firewall relay clicked. Nothing on the starter...

Now at this point, I'm rather frustrated...

What are the odds of getting two bad new starters? Autozone lists a bosch starter (more $$), but they don't have it in stock. Rockauto lists starters from several suppliers... I don't really want to keep buying starters to try.

Am I doing something wrong?

I haven't tried exchanging the new starters yet. I'm a little hesitant because I have to grind off part of a lip on the starter to use it with the destroked adapter and my engine. I doesn't affect the integrity of the starter, but they might hassle me on a warranty claim.

Anyone else have problems with these import starters?

Anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks, Mike


start try #4: same set-up as start try #3. After letting the starter (and me) cool awhile, it worked fine. I got about three crank cycles of 10-15 seconds. Now nothing. Only the clicking on the firewall relay. The starter solenoid feels warm to touch...

I still didn't get the injectors bled and the engine running yet.

More frustration!

Any thoughts? Thanks, Mike

 

[MarkO]

Have you measured with an inductive ampmeter to see how much juice your starter is actually pulling?

It would seem as if you are pulling too much juice.

Since the starter is designed to turn eight cylinders that have higher compression ratios one would think you would have more than enough starter to get things turning.

But all of your symptoms indicate your starter is getting hot which is usually because you don't have enough juice to get things turning.

Getting hot is usually due to cables too small or something dragging inside the starter.

 

[bindermike]

The sweetest sound (almost)

Well, after yesterday's trials and tribulations, I let the truck sleep in this morning...

Figuring I'd get at least a crank cycle or two, I did my best to get the injectors bled, and she popped right off! I started her six or eight times throughout the day (I still don't have the radiator hooked up), and the starter's worked fine. I still don't have a lot of faith in it, so I'll be very cautious on initial road trips...

I'll see how it goes when I get the ignition switch connected, and the rest of the electrics hooked up.

I'll be curious to see what happens during cold crank starts this winter (assuming things work out...).

have you measured with an inductive ampmeter to see how much juice your starter is actually pulling?

Thanks for the reply marko. It's a good thought to check the current draw. My multimeter battery just died, so I'll check it out once I get a new battery for it. I'll have to see if it has a peak/hold function to capture the amperage reading.

Well, with renewed optimism, I should be able to get her rolling again in the next two or three days. Wish me luck!

Thanks again, Mike