shiny snout

[towpainter3]

Just pulled the motor and trans out of the Scout. The snout on the converter is worn and shiny around the nose , flexplate and torque con bolts were tight. Pump bushing bad or worn out? Didnt pull the converter out yet but it was pulling fine and shifted great. Will pull tomorrow nite and check hub side for wear. I would like to use this converter due to the drain feature thats not present on the 80 model any advice or suggestions would be appreciated thanks

 

[Michael Mayben]

just pulled the motor and trans out of the Scout. The snout on the converter is worn and shiny around the nose , flexplate and torque con bolts were tight. Pump bushing bad or worn out? Didnt pull the converter out yet but it was pulling fine and shifted great. Will pull tomorrow nite and check hub side for wear. I would like to use this converter due to the drain feature thats not present on the 80 model any advice or suggestions would be appreciated thanks

Can you post a pic of this converter pinpointing the area of concern? I don't understand your terminology.

If you mean the portion of the tc that engages the front pump/input shaft, then it's supposed to be shiny as that is a a precision surface for the seal and to ride inside the front pump bushing. If it shows any wear at all, then the converter is toast and only fit as a candidate for turn-in as a core on a reman. A remanner would replace that component with new.

A converter drain is certainly no dealbreaker for me, some have 'em, some don't. If the tranny didn't totally frag and load up the converter then it's a nothing deal. But I never reuse torque converters anyway unless the trans I'm building is simply a freshen job and was perfectly functional when taken out of service. And I'd never use a pullout tc that I did not actually drive and verify was functional. Used converters to me are nothing but cores, it's false economy to try a workaround with those items.

 

[towpainter3]

Here's the pic sorryy shoulda been more specific in my terminology. Like I stated im swappin motors and trannys. Both trannys are known good . Just did the reseal and vent steps also upgraded to a 518 deep pan and filter setup . Put in new pump and stator bushings. I have the converter from the 80 727 but it has no drain plug. I like havin the drain for complete fluid change. Dont know hat caused the shiny snout all bolts werre tight both converter and flexplate. There was some dirt in the crank hole im guessin from the nasty muck ive been thru. But not sure if thats the cause.im hopin its just from the dirt in the crank hole.

 

[Michael Mayben]

That portion of the converter does not move nor does it actually touch anything when properly installed.

When installed tight to the flexplate, there is actually a significant space between that nose and the flexplate retention plate and bolts. So the only thing I can think of that May have caused the nose to contact the end of the crank hub is "ballooning" of the converter which is an issue on very high horsepower applications used in drag racing with a transbrake system. I've never encountered a ballooned torque converter even when used in front of a badly abused transmission.

The converter moves at the same speed as the flexplate and the crankshaft hub since they are bolted up as an assembly.

 

[towpainter3]

The con shows no evidence of ballooning which ive seen before. Everything worked and shifted good with nothing other than the yo yo bs at cold start after a long rest. I can use the one from the 80 model or if you think get a reman. But as I stated both trans are used and in good internal shape.
The one im installing has had the vent, pan and trans go kit installed. I'll price a reman and go from there. But both were workin and the trans are good so you see my dilema moneys tight but damn takin this heavy bitch back out .thanks for your input

 

[RobertC]

If it is shiny on "one side", there should be a "matching shiny side".

Any evidence of "metal dust" when you took it apart?

 

[Michael Mayben]

the con shows no evidence of ballooning which ive seen before. Everything worked and shifted good with nothing other than the yo yo bs at cold start after a long rest. I can use the one from the 80 model or if you think get a reman. But as I stated both trans are used and in good internal shape.
The one im installing has had the vent, pan and trans go kit installed. I'll price a reman and go from there. But both were workin and the trans are good so you see my dilema moneys tight but damn takin this heavy bitch back out .thanks for your input

If...the inside of the trans pan was reasonably clean, with just a small cone of friction material debris located below the filter, then there is no reason to suspect converter contamination occurred.

I don't believe in "converter flushing". If you have seen the interior of a torque converter, then you will understand there is no way to flush particulate out of the unit. Flushing simply breaks loose the debris in the crevices and allows it to circulate where hopefully the filter takes care of it.

If a slushbox tranny experiences a catastrophic failure, then all circuits which see oil are heavily contaminated, that is why no transmission shop will re-use a crapped converter, they are too cheap to not simply replace with a reman.

The torque converter reman outfit I use locally has agreed to allow me to come in and photodoc a typical rebuild process as long as I don't discuss any of their proprietary operations. Hope to do that in the next 60 days and post once it's edited.

 

[towpainter3]

Yep there was a matching shiny spot inside the rear of the crank and yes there was metal dust. Im thinkin seriously bout just using the con out of the 80 cant figure out why the consnout would be rubbing inside the rear of the crank a reman is 95bucks plus tax thinking on that too.

 

[RobertC]

yep there was a matching shiny spot inside the rear of the crank and yes there was metal dust. Im thinkin seriously bout just using the con out of the 80 cant figure out why the consnout would be rubbing inside the rear of the crank a reman is 95bucks plus tax thinking on that too.

It sounds like you are missing a piece... Or have mis-matched pieces.

My t/a parts book (yes, I know you have a Scout II.) shows a reinforcing ring to the transmission side of the flex plate.

It looks like there are slight differences between a 727 hooked to an amc 258 and one hooked to an IH sv v8.

Michael mayben should be able to sort it out. I know I cannot.

What engine combos did your 727s come from?

 

[towpainter3]

Ok heres some pics the rear of the crank first, then the grey , im guessing metal dust from the rubba dub dub goin on. The the offending con hub and then the hub on the 80 model con. Neither con hubs show any significant signs of wear and both work great. Im at a loss and broke lol where to go from here ? Both 727 came from scout2's with sv motors the shiny snout is from my 74 which is the original engine tranny combo nothing was changed and the ring and all bolts are there as you can see in the pics nothing I know of is missing the engine I am installing is a 72 345, the crank extender and flex came off the engine that the new tranny came from so they should match. This shouldnt be goin on. If anything had been loose I would understand but nothing was loose at the removal trust me the mud down here in georgia woulda held it together lol

 

[ornelles]

Looks like something got loose, or out of round/warped, started a small wobble. Maybe something in the transmission input shaft or torque converter. Flex plate warped?

 

[Michael Mayben]

I see no problem at all here! Obviously tolerance stack has allowed the converter nose to chafe on the crank hub/adapter due to heat expansion and a slight ballooning in operation. If you are concerned about this, then put a dab of hi-temp grease on the nose of the converter.

The torque converter bolts solid to the flex plate, just like a manual clutch cover bolts solid to a flywheel. The flex plate bolts solid to the crank hub through the use of the spreader plate and the hub adapter (extender), same as a flywheel bolts to the crank hub.

It is not uncommon to find the flex plate cracked around the hub where it attaches (under the spreader plate), or at one or more of the bolt pads for the torque converter mounting points. Look very closely at each point for cracks, that would allow movement.

 

[towpainter3]

Ok been a while but I found the culprit on the shiny snout. The flexplate is cracked at one of the crank mount bolts running all the way out to the ring. Now I know where the knocking was from and also the shiny snout. This answers my question on replacing the converter and the knock noise that I thought was from the lifters. This thing would raise hell under a load and sounded great at idle. This is good im goin ahead with the new motor install, hammer down!