Scout 80 Steering box

[Mastiff]

yea, lets wait untill I get your box torn down and see what is needed to get it back up to snuff.

As for the coupler, disassemble it, clean out the old guck and check it out for wear. The coupler has a pin that is pressed into the column shaft, one small steel block rides on each end. The blocks ride in the bell in grooves. The groovs can wear and the pincan get sloppy. It is possible that the unit simply needs a good cleaning and regreasing.

I pulled the bell coupler apart and it looks good to my eye. I'm just going to clean it up and put in fresh grease.

Can one of you guys explain what's going on within the steering column? I mean, something like a bearing or bushing must be in there keeping the rotating part centered within the column. It feels smooth to turn, but I wouldn't mind servicing it if possible, or at least getting some lube in there that's not 40 years old.

 

[Michael Mayben]

When I rebuilt my last "full mast jacket" steering column (the one like you have), I neglected to take pics of the entire process.

But let me explain...

When you remove the steering wheel, under the hub is a coil spring about 1.5" long, fairly stiff. That spring loads a stamped brass "conical shape" bushing that centers the steering shaft in the mast jacket at the top.

Down at the bell joint end, notice that end of the mast jacket "necks down". That portion slides up inside the larger diameter mast jacket. Contained within that necked-down portion is another identical conical bushing. Both of these bushings are very thin stampings, not a solid bushing.

When the entire bell joint unit is assembled and located properly on the spline so that the clamp bolt can be inserted into the groove in the shaft, the bell joint then sets the proper distance for the lower steering shaft bushing.

Then when the steering wheel is re-installed with the spring under the hub in the proper location, the hub is drawn down onto the splined/tapered steering shaft at the top and the nut torqued. At that point, that coil spring provides the proper pre-load for the steering shaft within the upper and lower bushings.

This pic shows the top steering shaft bushing which just pushes into the counterbore in the mast jacket. This column is the "late" Scout 80 version like yours which uses the smaller bell joint and the same turn signal switch used on later pickalls with the non-locking steering column, ignition switch in the dash. The "earlier" version of the steering column used a much more tedious turn signal switch that is entirely different in it's operation. But both columns use the same pre-load spring under the steering wheel hub.

 

[Mastiff]

I got the rebuilt box back from Robert today and the steering is way better. It seems to me that the Scout has a pretty big turn radius for something this size though. Is that normal, or might I have something screwy? I can turn stop to stop, and the stops are in their original spot judging by the rust...

(I'm not saying this is new with the rebuilt box. It's always been like this.)

 

[Michael Dimock]

Yeah, my Scout had a wider turning radius than my f-350 1 ton 12' flatbed.... Buy it's short length and narrowness did make it easier to back and fill in parking lots.

 

[Michael Mayben]

I got the rebuilt box back from Robert today and the steering is way better. It seems to me that the Scout has a pretty big turn radius for something this size though. Is that normal, or might I have something screwy? I can turn stop to stop, and the stops are in their original spot judging by the rust...

(I'm not saying this is new with the rebuilt box. It's always been like this.)

Good deal man, working steering is kinda important!

The turning radius on any closed knuckle 4x4 axle is atrocious! And the Scout 80/800 d27 just magnifies the situation! An open knuckle 4x4 steering axle is somewhat better, that is why ihc refered to the Dana spicer open knuckle axles as the "40* steering" versions.

I use ours alot for snakin' logs, pulling stumps, and general tractor work. Ya gotta really plan ahead when pullin' a trailer or a load in order to snake yore way through the trees and obstacles.

The entire "ergonomic" package (if I can be so rude as to call it that!!!) of the Scout 80/Scout 800 is about the worst case scenario. The steering system was originally designed for a pickup (full length steering column) so the wheel is in your gut. The doors and seating position mean ya can't swing your elbows without gittin' a stinger...drive much nicer with the doors left behind. And the pedals are offset the wrong direction from the steering column!!! Some folks git kinda seasick tryin' to drive one...then add in the "no turning radius turning radius" and all in all it serves as theft prevention.

 

[Robert Kenney]

Yep, normal for an 80. I think the cranking of the wheel to the left is another possible cause of your damaged worm. I don't hammer the steering stops during a u turn, just live with the crappy tr. Glad it is tight now.

 

[RobertC]

I agree with michael about the "poor" turning radius (my 2wd t/a is nothing to write home about.).

And, I agree with robertk about "not forcing" / "hard lock" when doing u-turns / tight turns.

I try not to "do it". No "proof", but I actually think it is more of an issue with power steering...

 

[Michael Mayben]

Setting the steering stops on the axle to reduce turn radius even more will prevent damaging the cam and cam follower when the steering comes to a rapid halt in a full-lock turn. Especially when flat-towing the rig.

And installing six degree spring wedges between the front springs and perchs will certainly help the "caster" situation, that provides self-centering steering, and does help with "effective" reduction in turn radius. Goes much straighter down the road also...and if it's not "lifted (spring under lift), the change in drive line angle is in consequential.

On mine, I run six degree steel only wedges that are bolted through the spring centerpin and can never move! And I use the CPT 5" shackes all the way around. Very nice road manners with a moderate lift

pic attached, Jeff and I worked this out a few years back and is bombproof! The wedges arefor Scout II and must be "drilled" for the more narrow Scout 80 spring width...that in turn locks the wedges in, there is no way they can leave the scene!

 

[Michael Mayben]

Another pic of the spring wedge install.

The spring center pins are super extra long, once everything is fitted up, simply shorten the tail to suit!

 

[Mastiff]

Interesting. Do you have a pic of your Scout from the side showing the short lift? I was planning on getting some 1.5-1.75" lift springs when the time comes, since I have mismatched springs in the rear anyway. I wish I knew the history there. It seems to sit level, but there are fewer leaves on one side - a totally different spring design actually.

I've read bad things about shackle lifts, but maybe I should consider it if it works for you. Maybe I'd just find myself a used factory spring to match things up.

The Scout does seem to wander some, I know more caster would help that.

 

[Michael Mayben]

I'm with ya charles on the shackle lift thangee...but Jeff wants us to do a rs on the front end witha scrapper d30 he's got. Momma likes the stance now since she kin set her butt in it ez! So we might do a rs in the future with the stocker springs.

I'm constantly messin' with this thang so it looks like I'm doin' stuff productive! Since I'm soon gonna have the ties/wheels off my peekup available, I looking now at clearance issues with 33" tires....that set of tires is real fresh and I need to recycle 'em!

So these shot show 32" tires on the rear only, 6.70x15 stockers on the front, this the nose-down attitude. It sits perfect level with the full set of tires of any size. The 32" tires will clear the front fender wells ok but I'll have to use 1/4" wheel spacers in order to keep the tires out of the springs in a tight turn (or reset the limit stops!) wheels with proper backspacing will fix that also.

This is stock springs, 5" CPT shackles with new poly bushings. I sometimes actually "roll" logs using the two front shackles as a push bar!

Not too bad and ya can't hardly see the rear shackles.

 

[Michael Mayben]

Here's the front view.

 

[Michael Mayben]

And the rear.

 

[Robert Kenney]

Here is my feeling on lifting, 2 1/2-3" of spring + 3/4 - 1 of shackle. Exactly what I have on mine and it drives great. I compensated 3 degrees in the rear and 4 in the front. I am planing to reverse the tierod to the top of the knuckle so the drag link is flat again. I have a bit of bump steer and that will eventualy hammer my steering gear. I will need to build a new tierod with larger tre's so I can machine the tapers on the top side.

 

[Mastiff]

here is my feeling on lifting, 2 1/2-3" of spring + 3/4 - 1 of shackle. Exactly what I have on mine and it drives great. I compensated 3 degrees in the rear and 4 in the front. I am planing to reverse the tierod to the top of the knuckle so the drag link is flat again. I have a bit of bump steer and that will eventualy hammer my steering gear. I will need to build a new tierod with larger tre's so I can machine the tapers on the top side.

You have 4" of lift on your 80? It doesn't look that high to me. Or is this different than your avatar picture?

I wonder if I have some lift on my 80 and don't even know it. I'll post some pics soon to see what you guys think.

 

[Robert Kenney]

Probably closer to 3 1/2 after spring settle. 32 inch tires shrink the lift look also. More pix in readers rides that May be better at representing the lift.