Question From the SOUTH!!

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grimlock97

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First off hello from the south you yankees!!!
I have a few questions on my carb and a few other things that might be better in a different area, but I'll give it a try.
I'm new to the site but not new to IH, I just found a 78 that is 99% complete, the reason I say 99 is someone stole the factory winch off the front, first questions where can I find that factory winch plate, it sticks out from the bumper, not the hidden one, I found this Scout for 500 bucks and it was running according to the guy I got it from, he was the 2nd owner, bought it from California (there are moab stickers all over it) and said he drove it from there 10 years ago, since then it has rusted quarters and a few other things but really not bad for the price, I'll try to get some pics up later, now for the carb question, I am relatively sure I have a Holley 2245 based on all the posts I have read on here, when I got the truck home it is backfiring repeatedly and will not run if I let off the gas, backfires out of both tail pipes and shoots fuel out of the carb, so I took the carb off (thought maybe stuck float) the inside of the carb was nasty, it was rebuild a few years ago according to documentation but the best guy in montgomery apparently sand blasted the numbers almost off. Here are the only numbers I can make out on it:
436801 c91
6r 4139b
8108b
3402
maybe rc43a (really not sure, really hard to read)
does this sound like a 2245? I am trying to get new gaskets and need to make sure, but no one around here can find the gaskets when I tell them it's a 2245.
I'm not rebuilding the carb, just giving it a thorough cleaning to verify this is my problem, I am also looking for a fast idle cam since I was smart enough to break mine when I pulled it, now I have a rebuilt 2210 laying around that I pulled from my old 74, I put a new carb on it right after I rebuild the old one, so the old one is hopefully in good condition, can I put the 2210 on there and run it or should I stick with the 2245, I really want to apologize for the longness, I just have a lot to say!!
Any help greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
 
Welcome grimlock97, for starters if you go back to the beginning of this post you will see pics of both 2210 and a 2245 side by side. That should help in identifying your carb, I am sure m/m can look up your IH part number and possitivly identify the carb. Try giving the parts house the IH number you posted
"436801 c91" and use a parts store that is not afraid to look in the book not just the computer, it might help.
You might post up some other info such as motor, type of ignition, gold box, points or other.
One thing they always say here is to make sure the ignition system is up to par before trying to fix your carb, timing, dwell and vacumm. Granted you need it running good enough to check those things.
Just some starting points.
We can help you fix it just need more info.
Ron
 
Yeah, I looked at that sticky before I posted and the body looks identical to the 2245, but some of the internal workings are a little different, mainly the 2 stage power valve is short and squat on both my 2210 and the 2245. Here's the specs

1978 IH Scout II
345
gold box ignition
4x4
4 on the floor
gas

I took the carb apart yesterday and it was absolutely dusguisting in there I'm guessing from sitting for so long, I cleaned it thorughly and if I have the right rebuild kit will put it back together today and try it. The timing and everything seems to be fine, it drains my battery quick trying to start, but it starts and runs, just back fires, and pops white smoke out of the carb then dies, but I can keep it running for a while playing with the throttle.
 
None of the numbers you have posted translate to anything in either Holley references or ihc references.

The ihc part number you posted, 436801 c91, does not exist.

There is an ihc 436901-c91 2210c carb, that was a 49-state 304/345 application for m/y 1973 and would carry a list number of 6443 or "maybe" 6443-1.

The oem carb on a kalifornikate 345 in Scout II would be one of five possibles, none of which come close to any of the number strings you posted.

But that really doesn't matter at this point. I deal with these 22xx carbs constantly that have had various wrong bowl covers, installed on various wrong main bodies that are incorrect! No freakin' way the carb can operate if the power valve actuator does not match the power valve itself. So, I constantly receive email from folks telling me that their carb does not match the pics we put up!

The worst offenders are the "commercial" remans, where some benchmonkey simply slams shit inna body and has no clue to what they are doing or paying attention to matching correct core pieces to correct core pieces!

Please...if ya wanna do this right, we need to see pictures of all the parts you have. That is the only way of determining what ya got!

The only way to get a replacement fast idle cam is from a donor. Even though there are differences in 'color" and the number of idle steps in the various cams, all that shit is for "emissions" calibration and really means nothing as far as drivability is concerned. At this time, I have no spares, all I have in stock are dedicated for use in the customer 22xx carbs I do for ihon.

Obliterated id numbers are a by-product of the way the commercial remanners abuse these carbs,...without numbers, it's impossible to I.d. What anyone May actually have. Then...if the remanner does actually I.d. The carb in some manner, it is with a "sticker" that doesn't survive under the hood very long. The stickers used on Holley-source remans are designed to survive most any chemical.

No carburetor that has been in service should be opened up just for cleaning without having all replaceable parts done! There is only one way to "fix" a carburetor,...that is to do a complete overhaul, including repair of all damaged threads, removal/cleaning of the power valve actuator, and re-sealing all penetrations that were lead shot-"plugged" at the point of manufacture that might now be leaking.

And the nitrophyl float on any 22xx should also be replaced at the point of overhaul.

In order to bring this motor to life, you must have a fully functional carb...but I seriously doubt that the carb is all that ya have to work through...if ya can't keep it running, how can ya set the timing and validate the ignition system first before tuning the carb?

If it spits back through the carb once the carb is fully functional,...that is an ignition-related problem, and typical of a gold box system that is dying. But until you can "power time" it:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/ignition-tech/2122-ignition-power-timing.html

And do the diagnostics, ya won't know.

Put up some pics of your "stuff", until we see 'em everything is a crapshoot and we don't deal in gambling/parts throwing on this forum!
 
I know it was remanufactured here in montgomery by someone that the person I bought it from thought I should have known, like he knew what he was doing, and yes there is a little paper sticker on the side that says quality remanufactured, but that's all you can make out. I will post some pictures this afternoon when I get home, the 2 stage power valve on this site "http://www.carburetorfactory.com/expvw15.html" looks identical to mine, even though it says 2210 and 2245, is it possible that they just put another power valve in the same bowl and everything? I know just cleaning it is not the end all be all for the carb, but simply for testing purposes to find the resolution, it does not hurt, I have done this on several vehicles just to determine if it is ignition or fuel or whatever and never had any trouble in the end. Sometimes the machine will start up, warm up and run like a champ for 10 minutes then shoot out the carb white smoke ( or flames) I don't see how this is ignition based if it's running already.
 
grimlock97 said:
I know it was remanufactured here in montgomery by someone that the person I bought it from thought I should have known, like he knew what he was doing, and yes there is a little paper sticker on the side that says quality remanufactured, but that's all you can make out. I will post some pictures this afternoon when I get home, the 2 stage power valve on this site "http://www.carburetorfactory.com/expvw15.html" looks identical to mine, even though it says 2210 and 2245, is it possible that they just put another power valve in the same bowl and everything? I know just cleaning it is not the end all be all for the carb, but simply for testing purposes to find the resolution, it does not hurt, I have done this on several vehicles just to determine if it is ignition or fuel or whatever and never had any trouble in the end. Sometimes the machine will start up, warm up and run like a champ for 10 minutes then shoot out the carb white smoke ( or flames) I don't see how this is ignition based if it's running already.
Click to expand...

Well that all sounds exactly like the problems that I was having with my 345, less the running for 10 minutes part, and mine were all iginition related (cap wired out of order). All the carb does is mix fuel and air for the intake, if there is no vacuum from the motor, like on the space station, then the gas combo goes nowhere.

If you are able to get flames out the top of the carb, then you have pressure instead of vacuum cause by either a sticky valve, allowing cylinder pressure to push up, or you have a spark timing issue causing gas to explode at the wrong time resulting in flames.

If you were not getting any flames or explosions, then you might have a carb problem.

My 2210c also looks like the 2245 except for the power valve and part number.

Please let me know where I am wrong, as tends to happen.:icon_xd:
 
grimlock97 said:
I know just cleaning it is not the end all be all for the carb, but simply for testing purposes to find the resolution, it does not hurt, I have done this on several vehicles just to determine if it is ignition or fuel or whatever and never had any trouble in the end. Sometimes the machine will start up, warm up and run like a champ for 10 minutes then shoot out the carb white smoke ( or flames) I don't see how this is ignition based if it's running already.
Click to expand...

Unless some of the components were assembled incorrectly and then you've wasted your time tearing down, cleaning up and re-assembling a pos that needs more than cleaning alone can fix. If you've got that kinda free time, I guess that's a better way to occupy it than smashing mailboxes with a baseball bat. You asked for help, then contradicted the help offered by one of the most knowledgeable mechanics this side of the mississippi. Sounds like you've got it all figured out to me.
 
grimlock97 said:
I know it was remanufactured here in montgomery by someone that the person I bought it from thought I should have known, like he knew what he was doing, and yes there is a little paper sticker on the side that says quality remanufactured, but that's all you can make out. I will post some pictures this afternoon when I get home, the 2 stage power valve on this site "http://www.carburetorfactory.com/expvw15.html" looks identical to mine, even though it says 2210 and 2245, is it possible that they just put another power valve in the same bowl and everything? I know just cleaning it is not the end all be all for the carb, but simply for testing purposes to find the resolution, it does not hurt, I have done this on several vehicles just to determine if it is ignition or fuel or whatever and never had any trouble in the end. Sometimes the machine will start up, warm up and run like a champ for 10 minutes then shoot out the carb white smoke ( or flames) I don't see how this is ignition based if it's running already.
Click to expand...

That "carb factory" illustration is a typical half-ass wrong deal that does not tell the complete story, just enough to really scruu up anyone trying to use that shit. That is why the information you find on this site is factual, and tested/validated over and over every day for ihc-produced vehicles. There are hundreds of variations of these carbs, IH used only a very few versions over the years.

Send your carburetor to the "carb factory" and see what a pile ya get in return. Better yet, contact their technical assistance system.

If you are not satisfied with the answer I provided, then go somewhere else with your questions,...pretty simple! But then since you seem to know all this stuff, then why are you asking for technical help??

And by the way, I'm not a fuckin' yankee dude,... Unless somehow texas was relocated during reconstruction.
 
" sounds like you've got it all figured out to me"


how the hell did I contradict anything, I asked a simple question, how could it be ignition if igniting is the process of starting, not after it's running. And for you knowledge I tore down the carburetor, cleaned it, put it back together and guess what, it fucking worked. I put it back together with the same gaskets that were on there, I know this is not the long term resolution but I have been driving it around all day long without a hitch, that's the problem with some people, it always has to be a complicated solution when it could easily be a simple solution to a common problem. I'm not trying to be rude, you cali's just have a different language than we do and I was not trying to shy away from any help from one of the best mechanics ever....
 
Man this sure got tense there for a minute. Glad that it worked out.

Also, for what its worth, I seem to be the only person from cali posting on this thread. :icon_wink: I agree with you that people from oregon and elsewhere are a little nuts.
 
michael mayben said:
that "carb factory" illustration is a typical half-ass wrong deal that does not tell the complete story, just enough to really scruu up anyone trying to use that shit. That is why the information you find on this site is factual, and tested/validated over and over every day for ihc-produced vehicles. There are hundreds of variations of these carbs, IH used only a very few versions over the years.

Send your carburetor to the "carb factory" and see what a pile ya get in return. Better yet, contact their technical assistance system.

If you are not satisfied with the answer I provided, then go somewhere else with your questions,...pretty simple! But then since you seem to know all this stuff, then why are you asking for technical help??

And by the way, I'm not a fuckin' yankee dude,... Unless somehow texas was relocated during reconstruction.
Click to expand...

I understand what your saying, and I know you know what your doing, but sometimes it can just be as simple as cleaning something and running it to get it to work, anyways, for what it's worth thanks for the help, oh yeah, and just fyi bama is gonna whoop texas ass tomorrow!!!!!
 
grimlock97 said:
I understand what your saying, and I know you know what your doing, but sometimes it can just be as simple as cleaning something and running it to get it to work, anyways, for what it's worth thanks for the help, oh yeah, and just fyi bama is gonna whoop texas ass tomorrow!!!!!
Click to expand...

What a waste, why didn't you do this before wasting our time here by posting incorrect information?

This is a business, not a place to play beerthirty.
 
michael mayben said:
what a waste, why didn't you do this before wasting our time here by posting incorrect information?

This is a business, not a place to play beerthirty.
Click to expand...

How did I waste your time, I did not provide any incorrect information, the carb was doing exactly to a tee what I said, and I have video to prove it, it was backfiring and popping exactly like I said, just admit you can be wrong sometimes, a simple cleaning is all that's needed, but like you said it's a business so you have to be correct so you can sell your stuff, I was trying to be nice, but I guess I'll just have to get my Scout parts from a southern business and quit messing with cali douche bags.,

thanks ass holes.
 
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