Problems with first start after head work.

C

Chiatt

New member
I bought my first IH, a 73 1110 Travelall, last fall, and I'm getting things ready to drive. It has an improved cooling 392 matched to a 727 torqueflight. I had the heads done by a machinist who used to work on the 392's for the local school district and was familiar with the engine. He also rebuilt my Holley 4150. I put everything back in and added a dui, stan's headers, and a new radiator/ electric fan kit from sparky at rnd fabrications. Everything was going great until I fired it up. I started it up and ran it 2 or 3 times for about 30 second intervals and it was already burning the vht flameproof paint off the headers, but only on cyclinders 1, 2, 7, and 8. Cylinder #4 is partially burnt, but not too bad. Before we get to up in arms about what paint I used, forget about it. The paint just indicated that some cylinders were getting hotter than others. As I checked, the cyclinders with burnt paint also had plugs that indicated they were running very lean. The others looked close to normal and seemed as if they had been firing correctly.
I checked all the vacuum lines and ports to make sure all was fine and it was. I also check for spark to the "cooler" cylinders...there is spark...a lot of it! I would think the next culprit would be valves...thoughts?
I'm new to IH engines, but I'm also fairly new to working on engines in general. I have a manual for the vehicle and I've been using as I go. I just seem to be stuck on this one. Let me know what you guys think, and what kind of info you need if I left something out.
 
Welcome. Let's start with ignition timing. Who installed the davis, you or the builder? Was the #8 cylinder at tdc (compression stroke) when the dizz was stabbed? Were all plug wires connected to the dizz in a clockwise fashion in accordance with the spec'd firing order beginning with #8 and ending with #1? Timing off #8 is the one quirk about the IH sv8 that eats peoples' lunch...even experienced wrench turners...time and again.
 
When you had the heads reworked did you also have the rockers reworked?

As it has been explained many times here in many posts, the rockers and the top side oil supply could have been designed better.

While everything else might be working correctly, if all of the valves are not opening completely it would create the results you have experienced.

Good luck and keep us posted at to your progress.

Or lack thereof.
 
I installed the dui....I didn't stab it based off the #8 though. I'll pull it and do it that way though if I need to. Is there a thread anyone knows of that explains why you need to do it that way? It seems that it shouldn't matter as long as you are tdc on any cylinder and set the plug wires accordingly the timing should be within the range of adjustment...I'm just trying to get a better understanding. I haven't been able to fully time it yet since I have not gotten it to an idle yet....and for fear of burning something out.
As far as the rockers are concerned, I need to check with him and see exactly what he did...and if it was actually him that did the work. I've read through some of the non-oiling threads and would love to avoid being a statistic! I'll get a hold of him Monday morning and see what I can figure out. Meanwhile, I'll try and play with the dizzy and see what I come up with.
 
Yes, the dizz stab needs to be done as I described. Very important. Otherwise your firing order will be out of sequence. I think it was just blind luck that you even got the engine to start the way you did. V8 engines from most other makes are timed off cylinder #1, but not the IH sv8's. Cylinder #8 is where it all begins. And do keep in mind that the timing scribe on the crank hub/balancer will align with tdc on both the exhaust and compression strokes. If you stab the dizz with #8 on the exhaust stroke, your timing will be 180 degs out. So, #8 at tdc on the comp stroke, stab the dizz, the tower location above the rotor is for your #8 wire. Then proceed clockwise with: 4-3-6-5-7-2-1. Another common issue with the dui unit is not much rotational clearance for timing adjustments. As you know, it's a massive unit compared to your old stocker, and that upper water neck/thermo housing also takes up a lot of space. So when you stab it, you need to orient the thing so that you have enough rotation to add another 8 or 10 degrees of advance to your static timing from 0.

Edit...woops! 392. You won't need 8 or 10 degrees of additional advance. More like 5 to 7 degs maximum.
 
99% of the time excessive header temps or even glowing red/orange is a a result of retarded timing.
But first make sure you have the dizzy stabbed. As you said, if you have any given cylinder at true tdc on the compression/power stroke you can install the dizzy there and install the wires according to the starting cylinder and be close.. The problem is that on these IH's the timing marks used for strobe timing are only associated with # 8 and 5 so getting the timing set correctly with a timing light(strobe) won't be possible unless using 8 or 5... For consistency and not to confuse things further use # 8. Your intake manifold is marked with the firing order and the intake runners are marked with the cylinder numbers.
 
I finally found some time to get back to work on this thing. I restabbed the dizzy based off the 8 and things are a little better...I got it to idle and adjusted the carb a bit. The machine shop hot tanked the rocker assembly as a complete unit, so they were never taken apart. I still have issues with #4 and #5 cylinders though. The plugs are pretty new, but I'll swap them out and compression test. Any other thoughts?
 
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