I'm a new Scout owner and would definitely not classify myself as a gearhead, but I'm learning and have friends to help me out. But we're all stumped on this one. I've got a 75 Scout II with a 304, t-19 transmission. I had the clutch rebuilt by a local Scout mechanic a couple of weeks ago. We reinstalled last week with a new throwout bearing and all new plastic bushings in the linkage arms. Everything went smooth with the reinstall and it ran and shifted great, but I started hearing a humming noise while the engine was idleing anytime I pushed the clutch pedal in. The noise stops when I release the pedal. We put it on a lift yesterday to get a better look. With the inspection plate off we discovered the noise seems to be coming from some "play" in the pressure plate when the clutch pedal is pushed in. We didn't think this was normal, but I was curious if anybody else had experienced this. I definitely don't want to cause any damage to the clutch, flywheel, etc. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.
Pressure Plate Noise
- Thread starter griffin20
- Start date
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
Did you replace the pilot bearing installed in the crankshaft hub??
With the dust cover off the bellhousing and the rig up on stands or a lift, with two people to "play" the clutch release/pedal and listen,...stick one end of a piece of fuel line in your ear to use as a stethoscope and carefully hold the other end close to where ya think the noise is being generated so ya can pinpoint it.
Is the clutch a locally-done "rebuilt", or a new clutch cover and disk (along with throwout bearing)? Which clutch cover are you using, the "angle link" clutch cover is not shown? Go here for clutch id:
http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/transmission-tech/1017-proper-clutch-identification.html
Do you have adequate "free-play" in the clutch pedal/release system so that the throwout bearing is not continuously riding the clutch cover fingers?
With the dust cover off the bellhousing and the rig up on stands or a lift, with two people to "play" the clutch release/pedal and listen,...stick one end of a piece of fuel line in your ear to use as a stethoscope and carefully hold the other end close to where ya think the noise is being generated so ya can pinpoint it.
Is the clutch a locally-done "rebuilt", or a new clutch cover and disk (along with throwout bearing)? Which clutch cover are you using, the "angle link" clutch cover is not shown? Go here for clutch id:
http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/transmission-tech/1017-proper-clutch-identification.html
Do you have adequate "free-play" in the clutch pedal/release system so that the throwout bearing is not continuously riding the clutch cover fingers?
I didn't replace the pilot bearing. I'll take a look this evening to try to id the clutch. Is there a code on the line setting ticket that would help in identifying? There's about 1 1/2 inch freeplay in the pedal and the spacing between throwout bearing and the fingers appears to be fine.
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
1-1/2" clutch pedal free-play is way too much!
The lineset code May or May not define the clutch,and most likely if it's been replaced, it's not the same type. That is why we need a visual id of exactly whatcha got!
The excessive free-play May be allowing the throwout fork and the bearing to clatter together, kinda a rattly-whirring sound? Set the free play at the pedal pedal to a distance of about 1/2" and see what happens, the clutch action will feel much better. Excessive pedal free-play will prevent the clutch from releasing cleanly and it'll start dragging when it gets hot.
Those rigs use a ball bearing pilot bearing, not a bronze bushing...if the bearing gets rough (they are extremely durable unless damaged when the tranny is stabbed after clutch replacement), you will have noise that comes and goes depending upon pedal pressure as it engages/disengages.
The lineset code May or May not define the clutch,and most likely if it's been replaced, it's not the same type. That is why we need a visual id of exactly whatcha got!
The excessive free-play May be allowing the throwout fork and the bearing to clatter together, kinda a rattly-whirring sound? Set the free play at the pedal pedal to a distance of about 1/2" and see what happens, the clutch action will feel much better. Excessive pedal free-play will prevent the clutch from releasing cleanly and it'll start dragging when it gets hot.
Those rigs use a ball bearing pilot bearing, not a bronze bushing...if the bearing gets rough (they are extremely durable unless damaged when the tranny is stabbed after clutch replacement), you will have noise that comes and goes depending upon pedal pressure as it engages/disengages.
So I adjusted the pedal freeplay to 1/2". This didn't help the noise issue. The clutch cover is the "angle link" cover. (I found a picture in the thread from the link you sent and I found it written on the cover). To answer your question about if the clutch is a locally done rebuilt...it is. The owner of a local IH shop rebuilt my old clutch. Next time I get a chance I'll get it up on a lift and try to pinpoint the noise using the fuel line "stethoscope", but I'm fairly confident from looking and listening with it on a lift last night that the noise is coming from the play in the pressure plate. If that is the case, what might cause that? Thanks for all your input and suggestions.
I found some info on another forum today about problems other owners have had with the angle link plates rattling...especially after a rebuild. These were all on diesel rigs. Mine's a gas rig. Have any of you run into this rattle with the angle links before? What's the best solution? Thanks.
Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
One think to consider, while you have your foot on the clutch pedal all of the moving components in the pressure place are loaded and will not rattle. The other parts that actuate the pp can if the actuation levers are not set correctly.
A growling noise can often times be from a rough throw out bearing.
A growling noise can often times be from a rough throw out bearing.
Looked again at the invoice from the work done on my clutch rebuild. There was a new pilot bearing installed...so overall I've got a rebuild 11" clutch disc with rebuilt angle link clutch plate and machined flywheel and new throw-out bearing and pilot bearing. The noise is definitely coming from a rattle in the pressure plate when the clutch pedal is pushed in. The transmission shifts really smooth through all the gears.
Also, this just started in the last couple of days...there is a grinding noise when I start the engine. When I purchased the Scout at the end of March I had the same sound. I figured it was the starter, so one morning a week after buying when it didn't start I wasn't surprised. I put in a new starter. Everything was great with every start until the last few days.
The flywheel looked great when we had it out...no cracks, no broken teeth. So I'm curious why it would be grinding again.
Also, this just started in the last couple of days...there is a grinding noise when I start the engine. When I purchased the Scout at the end of March I had the same sound. I figured it was the starter, so one morning a week after buying when it didn't start I wasn't surprised. I put in a new starter. Everything was great with every start until the last few days.
The flywheel looked great when we had it out...no cracks, no broken teeth. So I'm curious why it would be grinding again.
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
Were the setup specs for the angle link clutch observed when this clutch was "rebuilt"?
All information needed for doing this is in the Scout II service manual, cts 2304. That design clutch is referred to as the "open back" version, codes 11103, 11106, and 11107. The angle link clutch cover was used in many other ihc-produced vehicles/platforms, not just the Scout II.
Remove the dust cover from the lower bellhousing and observe the engagement of the starter drive and all clutch components while cranking over. A v8 engine will always "stop" when the switch is turned off in one of four distinct positions of the flywheel ring gear in relation to the starter drive/pinion. Consequently ring gear wear will only be observed at those four distinct positions. A four cylinder engine will always stop at two distinct positions, and a six cylinder engine will always stop at three distinct positions. This is created by the "spin-down" of the engine once the ignition is killed and the crank rotates to a final rest as governed by individual cylinder compression and valve timing.
For a pic of this issue, see post #95 in this thread:
http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/readers-rides/2550-ol-yellar-3.html
If you can hear abnormal noise when the engine is cranking over (disable the ignition to prevent firing), then something is wrong and ya should be able to see what it is based on where the noise is coming from.
All information needed for doing this is in the Scout II service manual, cts 2304. That design clutch is referred to as the "open back" version, codes 11103, 11106, and 11107. The angle link clutch cover was used in many other ihc-produced vehicles/platforms, not just the Scout II.
Remove the dust cover from the lower bellhousing and observe the engagement of the starter drive and all clutch components while cranking over. A v8 engine will always "stop" when the switch is turned off in one of four distinct positions of the flywheel ring gear in relation to the starter drive/pinion. Consequently ring gear wear will only be observed at those four distinct positions. A four cylinder engine will always stop at two distinct positions, and a six cylinder engine will always stop at three distinct positions. This is created by the "spin-down" of the engine once the ignition is killed and the crank rotates to a final rest as governed by individual cylinder compression and valve timing.
For a pic of this issue, see post #95 in this thread:
http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/readers-rides/2550-ol-yellar-3.html
If you can hear abnormal noise when the engine is cranking over (disable the ignition to prevent firing), then something is wrong and ya should be able to see what it is based on where the noise is coming from.