Official Oil Recomendations

Silverscout

Silverscout

Member
Thanks for being here for questions.

I was recently sold on sweepco by a local builder who claimed that zinc was a missing ingredient from most other brands (due to the 2007 reformulation). He claimed that the older motors needed zinc to avoid premature breakdown. Is there any truth to this?

Also, on my t-19 transmission/Dana 20 t-case. Am I correct in assuming that they do not need any extreem preasure additives like the differentials do? If that’s the case, what oil should I run in my tranny? I am on the verge of running straight 50 weight motor oil. Can I or should I do this?

Last question, I promise. On your molly grease, would that be suitable for a toyota birfield? What % is molly is the grease?

Thanks again.
 
Silverscout,

thanks for your posting,

the builder gave you the correct information; when the latest api (American petroleum institute) rating on gasoline engine oil (sm) came out in late 2006 (for 2007 & newer vehicles), the amount of phosphorous (extreme pressure agent), zinc (friction modifier) and calcium (detergent/dispersant) were reduced dramatically. This was pressured by the epa which wanted catalytic converters to last more than 120,000 miles.....it was found that zinc in larger quantities in the oil poisoned cats, however, if a cat doesn't last more than 120,000 miles, something else could be wrong with the engine, the emissions system, or the exhaust system - including oxygen sensors. Jeff has a write up on this which I did back in early 2007, you can read it at the store section, engine, then go to where you see the image of swepco products and click on the "306" engine oil.

Besides the gasoline service rating changing, the diesel service level also changed at the same time. The new diesel rating is "cj-4" and it also has reduced additives.

Swepco also manufactures the sm/cj-4 oil in either 303 or 308 products, but recommends using the 306 sl/ci-4 oil formula in all engines prior to 2007 for the best protection.

Flat tappet cams in older and in high performance engines are particularly prone to experience high, premature wear, some even failing on the dyno when using the newer oil.

____________________________________________________

as far as the transmission/transfer case requirements go, I do not have a listing for those, do you know what the manufacturer calls for? Quite a few newer manual transmissions and transfer cases call for an oil which is similar to atf, generally it is somewhere between a 20 & 30 wt product. I have several customers who use our 714-20wt atf with great success, however with hard use, the 30wt would probably be a better choice.....so, if your transmission calls for an "other than a gear oil" product, one of these would probably do a very good job for you. I am an "old-school" type person who believes that engine oil is for engines and transmission oil is for transmissions.

Swepco technology is such that their transmission oils, both atfs and gear oils contain extreme pressure additives for added protection. There May be an issue with using "other" oils if the transmission contains yellow metal (bronze or copper) especially in the syncronizers. The e.p. Additives in other oils will attack the yellow metals and can cause an eventual failure. The e.p. Additives used in swepco products are compatible with yellow metals and have been the choice of many race teams as well as individual pleasure vehicles for decades.

If your tranny & transfer case call for gear oil and you are going to have severe service, I'd recommend the 210 - 80w140 gear oil in the tranny, t/f case and the differential, it is more energy efficient than even the 201 - 80/90 product is. Since it is a true multi-graded gear oil, you will start out with the lower viscosity oil and as your conditions need it, it will adjust to a higher viscosity as the temperatures dictate. I have customers who run nascar classic cars, sprint cars, stock cars, sand rails and dune buggies which use it in the differentials as well as the transmissions (except sprint cars which do not have trannies).

Also, for your information, 50 weight engine oil is the same viscosity as 90 weight gear oil, so putting a heavier oil in the box which calls for a lighter weight oil can cause stiff shifting, especially at start up when the unit is cold.

If you could give me the weight and type of oil the manufacturer recommends, I can be more specific.

____________________________________________________

I'm afraid you have me, as in over 23 years in the business, I am not familiar with "toyota birfield." can you educate me?

The percentage of moly in the swepco 101 is unfortunately proprietary information. I can tell you that it is more than 2%. Anything much more than 2% is not considered practical. Molybdedum disulfide (mos) is only one of many additives used in the 101 moly grease. It has an lb/gc rating, which means it is rated for chassis lubrication as well as wheel bearings.
It is a non-melt grease and is suitable for most bearing and sliding applications.

When changing over to a different grease, especially in bearings, you should always make sure that all of the old grease is removed from the bearings, the cavities, races spindles, etc. Most greases are not compatible with one another, so they should never be mixed. In chassis applications, you have no choice but to grease at shorter intervals until the old grease has been purged out. A "runniness" May occur when some greases are mixed and as a result you will not get the better characteristics of either grease until it is purged out.

This got a little long, but I felt I needed to give you as much information as possible......hope I helped!

Dick floryanowich
 
Here's more information on flat tappett cam engines for you.....
_____________________________________________________

more info regarding the flat-tappet cam problems with low zddp (zinc) levels in newer oils
an article in a recent engine building magazine offers their “rules” regarding the break-in of flat tappet cam engines. More information has come up since the article was written, so we have combined the old and the new to give you a heads-up on what you should do.
First and foremost, do not use oils which are labeled with the api ratings of either/both sm, for gasoline engines or cj-4 for diesel engines. They do not contain adequate protection for flat–tappet cam engines as they are much lower in phosphorous and zinc.
Don’t use a synthetic oil for break-in.
Always apply a pre-lube to the cam lobes and lifter faces.
Do not pump-up hydraulic lifters before use.
Prime the engine’s oil system before start-up.
Lubricate lifter walls and pushrods with engine oil.
Fire the engine, bringing it to a fast idle of between 1,500 and 3,000 rpm. Vary this speed during running, in a slow-to-moderate acceleration/deceleration cycle. Continue this varying-speed cycle for 20-30 minutes.
Continue to use the proper oil or oil additive each time the oil is changed for best results.

Remember…”swepco to keep it running!”

dick floryanowich
 
Thanks for sending the website with the birfield information....actually I had guessed it pretty close when I thought it to be something related to drivelines, whether it was u-joints or c-v joints. I have saved the site to my favorites for future referral.

I take it that you do not have the marfield type system and are concerned about it. That sure looks awesome, and especially after reading the facts about the torture it took, very impressive!

The moly 101 #2 grease will do a great job for the bearings in that unit, in fact for that matter in your entire rig. However, please be advised that it is a proven fact by all bearing oems that overgreasing is the #1 cause of bearing failures. Therefore, care should be taken when greasing bearings that the bearing surfaces are completely coated, and a sufficient amount of grease is evident on the cages. Do not - repeat - do not pack the hub cavity with grease, or in the case of the birfield, do not pack the entire cavity with grease. When this is done, the grease becomes an insulation barrier which traps the heat inside and is not allowed to escape radiantly through the hub casting.

Due to the punishment the axle shafts take in your application, especially with the wheels cranked over hard and at moderately full power, the grease will not have much of an effect on the strength of the axles, the 101 will however, give you much more bearing protection than a standard wheel bearing or c-v joint type grease.

Moly 101 grease is one of swepco's fastest selling greases, and by far the number one product in the way of performance vehicles and automotive applications.

Dick floryanowich
 
I really appreciate you posting factual information dick! And it's not just stuff regurgitated from big oil boyz marketing hype!
 
Thanks michael,

I appreciate your comments.

This is the first time I have done anything like this and must admit that Jeff had to convince me to do it. My aim is to answer all questions honestly and with integrity, and if there is something I'm not sure of, I'll certainly admit it and ask for help on it.

Unfortunately, with all the hype you hear in commercials, most of the time you are only getting (if at best) part-truths!

Best regards
 
swepco said:
Also, for your information, 50 weight engine oil is the same viscosity as 90 weight gear oil

dick floryanowich
Click to expand...

Wow never knew that! Thanks for taking the time to answer questions.

Hyjack:gringrin:
not sure if this has been covered, but I have a 345 IH sv engine. What weight oil should I run? The manufacture recommend 30wt. But thats 30-40 years ago:icon_eh: I've been running the 20-50wt swepco306 oil on my freshly rebuilt engine and I changed the oil at about a 1,000
one more question how long does oil last? Meaning I don't drive a lot, so how long before the oil just ages out.

Thanks
 
Craig,

thanks for your posting and your questions......

First of all, I'm glad to hear that you are using swepco 306 engine oil in your rig - and also glad to hear that you changed the oil after the first 1,000 miles after a rebuild. Most people don't realize how important it is to change the oil within 1,000 miles after a new engine, or rebuilt engine is put into service. New/rebuilt engines are loaded with dirt and metal particles, most of which is too small to see without a microscope.

Back 30 -40 years ago oil technology was not nearly at the level as it was even 10-20 years later. Single weight viscosity oils were normal recommendations back then simply because multi-weight oils had not been developed with sufficient chemistry to work well. I remember back in 1955, my Dad bought a new buick v-8 and was told that the factory fill oil was 10wt oil, for him to drive it 500 miles, then switch over to 30wt.....seems they wanted a light-weight oil to help the rings seat faster, but the problem was that it didn't provide a lot of protection. Back then, all automotive oils were non-detergent oils which would look clean on the dipstick only because there was no detergent or dispersant in the oil to hold contaminants in suspension...if you ever pulled the pan on an engine run with non-detergent oil, you would see a huge amount of sludge sitting on the bottom.

Since you have rebuilt the engine, using modern day parts, it is no longer necessary to "break-in" the engine with straight weight non-detergent oils like it was back when your rig was first built.

You didn't mention what part of the country you are in, but I would probably recommend either the swepco 306 15w40 or the 20w50. If you experience high ambient temperatures in the summer, like we do here in California's central valley, I'd probably stick with the 20w50, especially if you work it really hard when you have it out. Otherwise 15w40 would also do a good job for you.

The next part of your post is a little more complicated than what it might seem to be.

If you read the last article I posted about why oil goes bad, you will note that the quality of the base stocks and additives used will have an awful lot to do with the life of the oil (not counting contamination, of course).

With normal use, when overheating is not a factor, nor fuel or water contamination of the oil evident, 5,000 miles is the recommendation for normal oil changes unless you are using an oil analysis program. I've met several "old-timers" in the course of my career who look at (and measure) the condition of the oil by how it looks and smells on the dipstick. This is not very scientific, but they were convinced that was the reason they had 100,000 miles on their engines!

Using a comprehensive used oil analysis program is compared to having a blood test taken on your body.....since oil is the lifeblood of the engine, it will tell you precisely what is going on with the oil in the way of additive levels, metal wear and fuel/coolant/soot contamination. It will also tell the condition of the oil in respect to oxidation, which is the major cause of oil breakdown, outside of contamination.

A 5,000 mile drain interval using swepco under normal conditions (including light towing) is not unreasonable considering the quality of the product, on a gasoline powered engine. You want to make sure you change the oil filter at the time you change the oil and check/replace (if neccessary) the air filter especially if you off-road a lot.

As far as aging is concerned, unopened containers of fresh oil will certainly last longer than oil in an engine which is just sitting. Used oil in an engine is exposed to air, water and fuel, also to chemical reactions of any material in the oil itself. These factors will all have a result on the life of the oil.

Sorry to be so vague, but once again the "scientific" way to extend engine oil drains is to use an oil analysis program, otherwise you can be playing russian roulette with your engine and you might as well be looking at or smelling the oil on your dipstick to determine your drain interval.

Dick floryanowich
 
used oil in an engine is exposed to air, water and fuel, also to chemical reactions of any material in the oil itself
Click to expand...

Just for insurance, I've changed mine at minimum once a year on the low milers regardless of the odometer. Even a couple of months is long time and I've found even on tight engines with pcv systems, if there's dew on the hoses, there's got to be moisture inside somewhere.
 
Hello all new here at IH. Just some info from north georgia on oils and grease... Over a period of about 5 years in the nascar weekly racing circuit, ive seen all the snake oils and surething remedies a guy can handle!!! Personally ive found that schaeffers 7000 20/50 works best down here. And their moly grease is the stuff. Its completely waterproof. They also have gear oils and tranny fluids for just about any application. After talking to the rep for sometime about the zinc thing he states that their oil will protect even the old flat tappet motors due to the amount of soluable moly in it. Just a thought about it from georgia .their website is schaeffer oil 3.0 | industrial lubricants | diesel fuel additive | synthetic motor oils
 
Hello towpainter;

in response to your posting, I am very familiar with schaeffer oil products, in fact I was invited to join their sales force several years ago. They do make some products which are definitely better than the average, national brand products bought off the shelf, but with experience I've had about "the competition" I decided to stick with swepco and have never been sorry.

Any assumption on your part which would imply that swepco products are "snake oils" are without merit.....I'm sure that jay shields, the grandson of the founder of schaeffer would not even go that far!

For that matter, if someone wanted to take a "step-up" from the majors, and didn't want to pay a higher price, it would probably be a good choice for them - it is always better to step up from what is commonly available from lube manufacturers who are in competition with each other because of "low price." (schaeffer is higher priced than the majors, as swepco is higher-priced than schaeffer). I'm glad that you are using schaeffer and are happy with it, but it is not the only thing out there that works well. I have been involved in racing for over 22years now, and believe me, I've seen the results in using different oils too!

Schaeffer's claim is that they are the "king of moly" technology in oil products, and they use moly in just about everything they produce. Moly is an excellent friction modifier, but not the only thing neccessary for a fully balanced lubricant. Swepco does use moly in quite a few products, including their engine oil, but does not rely on it solely, it's the complete package that counts, including the quality of all of the ingredients used to make the products.

So you see, I am not discounting the fact that schaeffer makes a better quality oil than the "average" product, but I wanted to set you straight on some things you perhaps didn't realize. Generally, you will not hear me throw rocks at any products even though I am sometimes tempted to (because, as you stated, there are "snake oils" out there). Everyone has their own likes and dislikes, it's up to them to be informed about up-to date conditions and applications, that is what this site is mainly about. Many times, in my monthly newsletters, I do not even mention a swepco product, or even swepco at all, it is meant to educate people so they know more about the industry - obviously, when there is a need to have a comparison, I will do so, just so they know there is something else out there they should be aware of.

Jeff Ismail at iho decided quite some time ago in favor of using swepco products in his equipment and for recommending them to his customers and friends. Previously, he had experimented with many other oils, including the up and coming synthetics but was not completely satisfied with them. It was just a few months ago when he asked me to be the moderator of the "oil tech" section of his website. Iho also stocks many swepco products and those can be purchased directly from the website.

Swepco (southwestern petroleum corporation) has seen extremely good growth in the 75 years they have been in business (no, they didn't make the axle grease for the covered wagons!) - they do not advertise, instead using those resources to keep overhead down and to continue to do research & development on new products. They, like schaeffer's is a family run corporation. They sell in over 80 countries around the world through factory trained representatives, such as myself.

If you would like to respond to me personally, please do so and tell me what town in georgia you are in, I can arrange to find out who and where your closest swepco field service representative is if you wish.

Dick floryanowich
 
In no way shape or form did I ever intend to imply that swepco products are snake oils. Here in north georgia, I cant ever recall seeing or hearing of them. Sure ,ive seen just about all the national brands of so called motor saving ,life giving oils and additives,but have found that nothing takes the place of good ol fashion maintenence. The reason that I mentioned schaeffers is it is readily available thru authorized distributors here and its affordable to those of us like yourself , that know good quality lubes are the life of any engine. Once again , didnt mean to throw a rock. And yes please if you can let me know if there is a swepco rep in this area and possibly a distributor. I'm always willing to try reputable products recomended by" folks who know". I'm located in ringgold ga. About 5 miles south of chattanooga ,tennessee.
 
Towpainter,

I was expecting a reply from you, and I'm glad you did. I realized that I might have come down a little hard, but sometimes that is necessary to get someone's attention. Also, realize that hundreds of people read these blogs and some things just need to be addressed head on.

Due to the difference in time, I won't be able to furnish the name of a rep close to you today, but will do so when I can get a reply from the office. I will send it as a personal message to you tho for privacy reasons.

Once again, swepco does not advertise as a company, several of us reps do quite a bit of advertising within the areas that we service, but that is normally limited to the type of business they are trying to zero in on. Not all salesmen are prone to get into a lot of automotive, or high performance racing, and stick to commercial applications such as industrial plants, construction or trucking..... I try to balance a little bit of everything, but must confess that there is a favored place for high performance for me. That's the main reason why you have not heard of them. If you google search swepco lubricants, or just swepco for that matter you will get pages upon pages of comments and testimonials, including a link to my website (I'll let you find that out for yourself!)

one of the friendliest customers I made early in my career with swepco came from tennessee, he owned and drove a "late model sportsman" racecar on dirt tracks all over northern California - his experience with our products picked up an awful lot of other racing accounts for me. He would go on and on about after the first full season of running our 306 - 20w50 engine oil, the bearings looked brand new! The same oil in methanol powered sprint car (my favorite) engines does not turn milky from the fuel and my customers with those cars are changing their oil after 4 races, instead of the one or two when using other oils.....I've had customers in that category go as high as 40 races without being "refreshed" which is phenomenal. I usually recommend somewhere between 25 and 30 as a rule depending on the tracks and the driver.

Take care, and I'll get back to you soon.

Dick floryanowich
 
Earthmover,

my recommendation for the 727 tranny is swepco 714-20 atf. As for the transfer case, if it takes atf you can use the same product, if it takes gear oil, either the 201-80/90 or the 210-80/140 will do the trick.

These products are available from Jeff at ihon.

Thanks for your interest in our products!

Dick
 
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