Occasional missing, wires

Should we do something to absolutely confirm I have the wrong ring? The tach reading from the msd seems pretty conclusive, but I don't want to waste time or money here. Can a paperclip or something be used to feel if each one is a real magnet?

Also, could you please explain what you mean about putting the distributor in the wrong position? Do you mean the rotor can only go in one specific way (not one tooth off either way)? If so, how do I find that position?

If we should take this off the forum, that's fine, you have my e-mail. Thanks.

Added: I got a paperclip and it sticks to every magnet. I assume the 4-cyl ring should only stick to every other one, right?
 
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mastiff said:
should we do something to absolutely confirm I have the wrong ring? The tach reading from the msd seems pretty conclusive, but I don't want to waste time or money here. Can a paperclip or something be used to feel if each one is a real magnet?

Also, could you please explain what you mean about putting the distributor in the wrong position? Do you mean the rotor can only go in one specific way (not one tooth off either way)? If so, how do I find that position?

If we should take this off the forum, that's fine, you have my e-mail. Thanks.

Added: I got a paperclip and it sticks to every magnet. I assume the 4-cyl ring should only stick to every other one, right?
Click to expand...

As you know we stand behind the work we do here at ihon 100%, if something is not right we're going to take care of it. That dam pertronix is not right...so you will receive another distributor that will have the correct parts, and it will be equivalent (or better) than the one I just completed for you. You saw the same level of customer service regarding your carburetor, and the clutch throwout fork which was damaged in use and not due to faulty workmanship, we replaced it anyway.

I have just learned tonite of one more I-4 delco with a pertronix conversion that has this same condition (also running a msd six box). I will get to the bottom of this, I'm already on the shit list at pertronix so this will simply add fuel to the fire.

I certainly realize that this is a pita for you as our customer and I regret this has happened. From our end, it also has a financial impact as we have to deal with this stuff without reimbursement from pertronix or the wholesaler for these items when they are faulty other than a "replacement" part. That's the way it is in this cottage industry, it's all part of customer service.

That delco distributor was never designed to be used in any other engine other than a v8 or four cylinder chevrolet and some other GM family bop (buick/olds/pontiac) motors. It certainly was never intended to be used in the ihc-produced engines and therefore the "window" in the cap for accessing dwell adjustment is not in the optimum location, neither is the lubrication cup and the vacuum advance can. When the same unit is used in the chev/bop applications, that is a non-issue.

In order for the vacuum advance to be located in the correct position to allow distributor rotation for timing adjustment purposes, that compromises the location of the window for dwell adjustment for the I-4 application. Therefore the distributor will only correctly mount in the hole in one particular position which provides about 20* of rotation. That means you have only four exact points of drive gear alignment that phases the rotor in a correct position for a secondary terminal in the cap and to designate that terminal as #1 in the firing order. Any of those four points could be designated #1 if the crankshaft is in the tdc position for #1 cylinder on the compression stroke.

This cannot be achieved by relocating the cap as it's keyed to the distributor body in one distinct location and the two spring-loaded cap hold downs must be properly engaged also.

So stabbing this distributor in an I-4 is no different than stabbing a distributor in any spark-ignition engine. You can stick it in one, two, three, four teeth retarded or advanced...motor won't run. A sv engine will run if the distributor is one tooth retarded or advanced, and I-4 will not! The delco mounting in an sv engine allows enough room to twist the distributor way out of phase in order to fudge the timing so it will run. If not stabbed correctly. The same mounting in an I-4 will not allow enough rotation to allow the engine to at least start.

Stabbing distributors is real simple, but can be tedious on occasion. And there is never any reason to deviate form the same position the distributor was mounted in at the factory.
 
Charles, more 1141 pertronix units arrived while I've been gone. So I'll get another distributor completed and on it's way to you asap.

In the mean time...can you post that short string of numbers on the sticker that is on the side of the actual pertronix module on the unit I installed which is incorrect? Should be 4 digits, a hyphen, and then two digits.

The magnet rings on these units are correct for four cylinder, though if you just glance at 'em they appear to have eight magnet segments installed under the tape. I have no doubt that what we have experienced here is a packaging issue (and poor qc) with pertronix and I myself was "fooled" and should have tested the magnet ring before installing. Last time I'll trust p-tron's packaging for dam sure, this is an expensive lesson for all.
 
I'll check when I get home. I'm confused about how the magnet rings could be right. I tested the ring with a paper clip and all 8 of the magnets are indeed magnetic, so unless the unit only triggers on every other one, doesn't it have to be incorrect? I mean, triggering 8 times per revolution?
 
A magnet ring for the proper p-tron for the ihc-produced 152/196 using a delco distributor uses four active (charged) magnets. An sv engine with a delco would have eight active magnets. Otherwise, the magnet rings are identical.

In the past, pertronix produced two different plastic magnet wheels for the delco distributor, these are the only pertronix applications that use this weird design pertronix setup as it was one of their first products developed back in the early 70's. Since then they have totally changed most distributor applications to use a slip-over-the-cam magnet wheel. But since in order to install that type magnet wheel on a delco of this design it must be completely torn down, that is not something doable by most diy "enthusiasts". So they designed the particular setup like you currently have.

The problem in simply removing four of the eight magnet segments in your current wheel is ..."which four do I remove", as they must be properly selected for phasing. There is a witness Mark on the plastic ring used as a control point for magnet insertion at the point of manufacture.

In the past...p-tron used the v8 magnet ring but only the proper four magnets were actually magnets, the other four points were simply "dead" pieces of something (for balance I suppose). In some of those rings, the four extra magnets spaces are open with no "place holders".

Had I actually tested that magnet wheel and seen that all eight magnets are active, you would never have seen this problem and I would have raised hell with p-tron (one more time) through the distributor I purchased those through. I simply screwed up and did not do the qa work for pertronix and it bit me on the ass. But then...why should the customer have to do their dam qa for 'em?? Stuff happens in the world of manufacturing, that is why we have qc and qa...but this is not the first time I've encountered this same issue but is the first time in the last three years.

The other issue is...the actual hall effect trigger module is "supposedly" different somehow internally between the item used in the four cylinder delco and the eight cylinder version...key word is "supposed to" and based upon previous experience with pertronix scruuin' shit up, I simply don't believe that but I'm not going to take two units and dissect 'em just to prove a point. So all we can do is compare component assembly numbers on the small, heat sensitive labels.

Before I take issues like this up with any manufacturer's technical service/customer service regarding any product or process I deal with, I do my homework so I have data and documentation at hand to expedite the process.

Again, the issue with this screwup is a delco issue, this has nothing to do whatsoever with any other pertronix system installation in any other distributor design. And I can gayrondamteeya it will be the last time it happens involving any pertonix installation in any distributor, this has cost me time and money which I cannot recoup, so I eat this one...sometimes that's just the way the car-fixxin' bizz is.
 
mastiff said:
it says: 20ae-v5
Click to expand...

Thanks!

So that doesn't match correctly either...bastards!

I just got off the phone with another member here at ihon (a local guy I did the same I-4 delco distributor for about a month ago), guess what...his is fooked also with wrong parts and one of the leads coming out of the p-tron module was cut almost entirely where it exits the potting and was hidden by the shrink tube.
 
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