Loadstar 1600 with 345

Update on the motor: I got the 345 on the engine stand this evening and started clean-up and disassembly. When I popped the valve covers I found what look like brand new 5 stand rocker assemblies. I mean no discoloring at all. Heads look spotless except for some carbon build up. The line ticket says this was a gas engine but was converted to propane at some point in time. I will pop some valves out tommorrow and see how they look. But in my opinion it looks like the heads have been worked already. Now the block is a different story. 2 cylinders have some rust pitting, not too bad, and probably because its been sitting for at least 12 years. The cyilinders don't even have the typical ridges at the top of the cylinders. No visible cracks in the heads or block. Anit-freeze looked strong and it was full of oil. So far it looks like a real good motor. I will pull pan tomorrow and mic the jurnals. Oh yea the oil pump seems to pump every where it is supposed to.
Ron
 
Jeff, according to the line ticket on the 76 it had a np-435, 4 speed with rh-pto, 03030577c94. Both trucks have been cut up and gone forever.
Ron
 
Update on motor- pulled pistons this morning and popped a couple of valves. This motor has been rebuilt before and from the looks of the rod bearings it barely got broke in. Crank has been turned down .010 and the rod bearings have 010 stamped on them. So right now looks like I would have to bore it out and put in some oversized rings.
Cylinders 3 and 7 had the rust in them and in my opinion it looks like the head gasket seeped water into those 2 cylinders. I have not pulled the cam shaft yet but if the rest of the motor is any indication, it should be fine.
The water jacket in the heads and intake are spotless, no rust build-up at all, the don't even look rust colored.
Valves, I pulled 1 intake and 1 exhaust, look good, valve guides are tight and surfaces look shiny. Valve seals are dried out but that is expected. I will have to pull them all but I need a beefier spring compressor.
All in all, it looks like this motor was rebuilt and shortly after that it was parked for good.
Ron
 
Sounds like you lucked out on the blocks. If everything looks good and the rust on the walls is not significant why not hone it out to get a new ring surface and put in a set of file fits. You didnt say whether or not the jugs were oversize ,but on lp motors since there is no carbon build up there is usually very little cylinder wear . Might save you some bucks!!! Just a thought from a guy who's frugal or as the wife says f'n cheap ass lol
 
Towpainter, as near as I can measure the jugs are 3.889-3.891 and according to spec they should be 8.745-3.8770 so at this point I need to take it to a shop and get their opinion. I did run a hone in there but I don't want to hone to much and the 2 jugs are pitted, not to the touch but you can see them after honing. Time for a pro to look at it. So to answer your question if it has been bored, I am not sure.
I did check ring gap in the cylinder with old rings I am getting about.030 which is more than spec which is .010-.020. File fits are a good possibility, thanks
my wife doesn't say it but I am a cheap ass too lol.

Ron
 
Last edited:
Here are some pics of the motor. Now thinking about it the #3 cylinder May be cracked down in the block which would mean having to sleeve it. That would be worst case.
#3 cylinder
dscf1344.jpg

#7 valve pic
dscf1345.jpg

Head ports
dscf1347.jpg

5 post rockers
dscf1350.jpg

Rocker close up
dscf1349.jpg

Head before cleaning
dscf1354.jpg
 
I went down and did some more cleaning today. I found some more proof that this motor has been rebuilt. The heads are stamped with .005 which tells me they have been planed. Head cleaned up pretty good still have a good final cleaning before paint but I got most of the crud off. Here are a few more pics with a question about the oil filter adapter. You see the one in the pic hangs the oil filter straight down, on a Scout they angle back about 45*. Will a Scout's adapter fit on this motor or are the ports different also?
dscf1363.jpg

dscf1364.jpg

dscf1365.jpg

dscf1366.jpg


Ron
 
This is a great score ron!

That oil filter header is typical onna medium duty app, along with the filter element that is about twice the volume of the equivalent unit used in light line stuff. It will bolt to any "3 hole" block, doesn't appear that one uses the "adapter" plate between the header and block as used in the light duty stuff.

We'll be looking at possibly a 55gal. Barrel full of those same headers inna 'bout two weeks.

There are quite a few different headers that were used throughout the I-4/sv engine apps. Hey will fit in some engine/chassis applications and will also accept the shorter spin-on cartridge. Some others mount the cartridge straight back, down at a slight angle, straight up, and up at a slight angle! And the same is found for the earlier canister filter assemblies that included a drain plug in the design of the canister.
 
Ron,
looking at this image, seems that the exhaust valves have receded in to their seats. Common on old motors designed for leaded gas if run hard on unleaded. But it May be an illusion.

Robert

dscf1354.jpg
 
Easy to verify by measuring the spring retainer to spring seat distance after removing the springs and any shims. Compare the measurment on all 4 exhaust valves. They should be the same +/- .025" . That is the max variation I will allow on a motor I build.

If you are planning on using the heads, I would recommend having hard seats installed. The valve sitting in a pocket will create a shrouding effect and severely impede flow @ all lift ranges.. Cost is usualy around $25.00- $40.00 per seat installed.

Robert
 
Thanks Robert, I have ordered a new valve spring compressor and I need that before I can inspect all the valves. So I will check as you advised.
Ron
 
I finally got around and pulled the camshaft on the 345. I though I would be able to measure the lobe to check for wear. But the only spec in the manual was for the journals, they are with in spec. Is there a stock spec for measuring the high spot of the lobes? Or do I have to measure some other way? Visually the cam looks good as do the cam bearings. I am still looking at the bearing spit holes to see if they need to be enlarged.
Ron
 
What I've always done ron is simply measure the "od" of the cam lobe from the base circle, and do that on each "side" of the lobe and record the data. Then repeat for all lobes for comparison.

The other way would be jig it in precision vee blocks on two journals as Robert has described and use a dial indicator to record "lift" on each lobe.

Since ya have the cam out now, can ya post the p/n on the rear of the cam gear ? I don't have a medium duty parts list, and we need to know "which" cam gear was used in the loadstar-variation engine and compare to the numbers we do have now. The cam and crank gears are a matched set (as are service part gear sets), so the crank gear p/n won't matter.
 
If you are planning on using the heads, I would recommend having hard seats installed. The valve sitting in a pocket will create a shrouding effect and severely impede flow @ all lift ranges.. Cost is usualy around $25.00- $40.00 per seat installed.

Robert

hmmmm, I thought (do not really know) that all sv engines had the stellite (hardened) valve seats in their engines (heads)???

As opposed to the chryfordolet(?) engines of similiar vintage...

Or, is it just "smog" IH sv engines???

I thought that unleaded gas caused "serious" wear in heads without hardened seats (without using additives).

My "experience" is limited.
 
I don't know about "all" sv compared to smog sv. But the 61 and 65 iirc were not inserted. Of course I could be wrong.

I know that they did have stelite faced exhausts valves.

Robert
 
Dave and I have had this "valve seat" discussion several times now. His experience with these motors dates to working with stuff as far back as whatever powered the kb series variations, though he started working on new IH vehicles in about '67.

Because the older stuff always had induction hardened valve seats in the heads, the "erosion" that plagued/plagues nearly all non-industrial/commercial engines back in the day when lead was eliminated from fuel never really affected IH stuff.

When I did valve work on IH heads when teaching that stuff, I know that the seats in IH heads were a real bitch to cut nicely with stones, I preferred using a motorized "cutter" system (far more accurate than a freshly-dressed stone) made by neway:

valve seat & guide restoration

I'm attaching an extensive .pdf document dating from April, 1973 that is the definitive reference for engine engineering data for the 6-258, v-304a, v-345, v-392, and v-400 motors used in light line stuff at that point in time. All the details are revealed.

As ya can see in that doc, the 345 and 392 had exhaust seat inserts, the 304a did not. 345 and 392 had stellite valve faces on the exhaust, 304a did not.

Take the time to read through all that data, there are many differences amongst the sv engine engine variations at that point in time.
 

Attachments

  • LL V-8 Info.pdf
    727.5 KB · Views: 663
IH had an interesting way of mixing and maching parts. The 152's I have done over have both had stelite,hard faced valves. In fact I have on on my desk at work. I wonder if the 4 bangers got special treatment because of the expected duty cycle they would endure???

Rk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top