JY fuel injection and C.A.R.B.

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WesChapman

Member
I just moved from lake co with no biennial smog requirements to sonoma co with biennial smog requirements. I'm doubtful my Scout will pass as it now has a 4 barrel thermoquad that was not available on CA emissions Scout in 78. Can I upgrade to TBI and still meet CA smog requirements?
I kept all the 2 barrel stuff and can swap back, but I'd rather move forward than take a step backwards.
 
It kind of depends on the inspection station.
There are many that have converted to TBI in CA and passed. But the inpection stations have specific requirements.
My advice is to drop by the place you plan to have do the inspection and talk to them.
Ask what is required to be retained. Some have a visual inspection so if it's on the emissions label it needs to be on the vehicle. Like the canister and the egr. Some get real picky with the specific carb. If you find that guy then go somewhere else.

I have heard of one that required a specific truck file be loaded in the computer that didn't require a lot of emission equipment and if loaded he would pass it.

Most anything can be addressed so when your done you won't have any issues.

I'm doing a 79 right now that I will be adding the GM canister with an electric valve that is controlled by the computer. The egr is controlled the same way by a little electric solenoid in the vacuum line.
So when done, everything will appear and function as original.
 
For what its worth, a '79 did come from the factory with a t-quad. It will pass smog. You'll need a catalytic (just one, no dual exhaust allowed), the air injection pump and tubes, the flapper in the exhaust, the heat riser hose from exhaust to air cleaner, the charcoal canister and egr bill mentioned, as well as all the necessary vacuum switches and hoses. Initial timing can be set at 5* btdc instead of 0 like earlier years.
The biggest thing that got me down here in la is the fuel tank pressure test. Not only do they test the seal on your gas cap, but the machine pressurizes the tank to test for vapor leaks. The truck could blow perfect numbers from the pipe, but if it fails the tank seal test, no deal. So all those vent lines going to the plastic vapor catch in the driver's side quarter panel have to be up to snuff.
Since you're somewhat removed from the big city, you might be able to go to a referee station and get the full story. Rural locations are less stringent as you know, so you might be able to get by with less than we can down here. A referee place will know for sure. The smog test places barely know what kind of truck you have, so they're usually no help.

A thermoquad was available as early as '74. Only the full size rigs came with holleys.
 
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Thanks bill, for the info. I'll check with a local ref and see what I can do.

@dealbreaker74: my Scout is a 78 with factory duals. My emissions decal on the cowl shows the 2 barrel. I kept all the 2 barrel stuff, but the carb wasn't great when it was on the Scout and now has been sitting for 6 years. All the smog equipment is in place and functioning except for the decellerator thingy mounted to the firewall. I unplugged it since the tq doesn't use it. When the engine compartment is warm, a sticky goo drips out of that unit. It May be in-op now....
 
This is where the referee station will be able to fill in the blanks. If you have a smog station in the neighborhood, and the guys speak english, you might also hit them on a slow day and pick their brains. They have reference books that call out timing specs, etc. They might also show which model years required which specific parts. Your factory duals might be fine without cats in '78.

I'm assuming you changed out the manifold and carb. Since a 4bbl thermoquad was an option, you'll probably be able to wiggle around the fact that your cowl tag says it had a 2bbl. As long as all of the necessary gack is there, there's a good chance you'll get by.
 
I didn't repaint the 4 barrel manifold, so it looks exactly like the rest of the engine. Basically looks like it has always been there. All the emissions equipment is hooked up and functioning, except the vacuum temp switch on the passenger side of the manifold. The switch is there, but I broke off the top fitting. Maybe I'll get lucky. I got lucky on the pressure test when the truck was smogged in 05. All the lines were in place and connected, but the vent connection bungs welded on the after market tank were never drilled into the tank. Tank held pressure really well, since the only functioning outlet went to the carb. I have since fixed this so the evap system works as it should now.
I really really want TBI, so I'll be talking to the man and see what he says.
 
X2 on the TBI/mfi. I have a '74 which doesn't need the inspections anymore. That'll be the test subject. But I really want to contribute to certifying aftermarket diy injection projects here in CA (or anywhere that has smog laws). There is no logical reason that people shouldn't be able to swap in a late(er) model fuel injection system, a la bill hamilton's creations. Better everything, and less maintenance.

I am sure you'll be able to source the vacuum switch that's broken. Plenty of that stuff on this board. Sounds like you're in pretty good shape otherwise. Hopefully guys like bill and Jeff will be able to dedicate a page to "emissions" certification, and we can get some actual guidelines to follow in each town or state that requires them.
 
I have not had time to talk to a smog ref about using a TBI setup on my truck. Since I wrote my original post, the Scout has become my daily driver.
I was able to pass the smog inspection (just last week) with the thermo quad installed and the dtm not installed.
I checked the manual and the thermovacumn switch that was broken in my truck was only required on CA scouts with a/c so I removed it as I don't have a/c anymore.
I did a home test of the evap system and it failed due to a cracked fitting on the liquid/vapor separator. I removed the separator, capped two of the vent lines and connected the third vent line directly to the charcoal canister line. This arrangement did hold pressure and allowed me to pass the evap test. I have since repaired and reinstalled the separator and vent lines.
The smog tech was a young guy and had never seen or heard of a Scout. His book told him to check timing on cylinder #1. Took me a few minutes to convince him the engine was really timed on #8, but he finally checked it on 8. He finally said, "I don't know if you're right or the book is right, but the timing is dead on and the engine sounds great."
my hc and co were slightly above average and my no was below average.
My truck has a dual diaphragm egr valve and the lower diaphragm was leaking, costing me 2" of vacumn. I had placed electrical tape over the port and reconnected the vac line. I forgot to remove the tape before the test, but my no was still below average. I've been looking for a replacement egr valve, but so far no luck. The smog book does indicate the egr valve must be a dual diaphragm.
 
Quick update: just called the referee center. They had no idea and told me to call the tech center in san jose. They had no idea what I was talking about and sent me to fresno. Talked to a knowledgeable guy there that even knew what a Scout was and agreed they were tough old trucks. TBI is an approved upgrade but he thinks to legally pass, the system has to be in kit form and have a carb approval number for the vehicle it's being installed on. So even if I took a TBI system from a CA emissions Chevy truck, it would not be legal on my Scout. The executive order must be for the system on the specific vehicle. But, he told me to call back on Friday and talk to his supervisor who is also the training tech. If there is any way to legally install a junk yard TBI system, he would know.
I shall report back Friday!
 
That's a lot of leg work, wes. Nice job. I hope we get an official answer here.
Fwiw, hot rod did an article about an 80s mustang that was outfitted with a 5.4 mod motor out of a 2007 model. To make the swap legal, the guy had to retrofit all of the fuel evap stuff from the donor car as well as all of the ECM/sensors/etc.
In the end, the car had an official referee sticker in the door jamb right next to the vin sticker indicating it was a recognized legal swap.
Now, this was a Ford to Ford swap, so that May factor in. However, below the surface, the new engine was as different as anything else. A late model ls or hemi would be just as foreign in that car. So hopefully, it will be recognized that late model FI on one of our dino motors is in every way a positive step towards emissions, mileage and drive-ability when compared to the carburetor it replaced.
 
Along those lines, as mentioned earlier, I was told that some inspection stations have recommended a specific Chevy heavy duty truck bin file that did not use all the emissions systems the passenger vehicles used.
That way when they connect the machine it is tested as that vehicle just as mentioned with the Ford swap.


I know it has been done legaly and can be done, but it's finding that inspector or referee that is willing to help and not just hide behind their rules and red tape because it's easier to just say no then to help.

But if required, egr and canister purge control can be added or retained with the basic TBI system.
 
I didn't mention in my previous post, but the guy in fresno suggested two options.

Option 1:register the truck in another state.

Option 2: install the TBI system making sure the existing smog equipment still functioned (egr, evap) and run it till the next test was required. His opinion was, and I quote, "I doubt if the idiots at the test center would notice the difference."
which lead me to wonder. I don't think the kid that did the test on my truck would have noticed. He didn't remove the air cleaner or even really get under the hood. He looked for the egr valve, evap canister and thermostatic air tube from the exhaust riser to air cleaner. He did check the timing which his book showed 0 to 5 degrees. Mine is set at 8 degrees, but the state allows a 3 degree variance. At my last test in 2005, I failed the functional at 8 degrees because the book only showed 0 degrees.
 
weschapman said:
I didn't mention in my previous post,

option 1:register the truck in another state.
Click to expand...

Even though thousands of people do it

CA dmv law = if you are a resident or have a job in CA; then, vehicle(s) must be registered in CA.

Many years ago, friends were moving to idaho and one vehicle expired a couple months before they moved, so they registered it in idaho. Unfortunately, she was stopped and got a ticket for the vehicle not being registered in CA...
 
I actually lived in one of those counties until December. If I had been thinking, I would have kept the Scout registered in that county.

Called the fresno office to speak with the supervisor, but his phone has gone directly to voice mail all day.
 
My sister in in mammoth/mono county and in 86' when she bought her fiat spyder it had to be inspected once(visual iirc) and never since. Guess the remote nature of some areas makes smoging a undue hardship. Tee car never see's sea level and spends it's time at 8500 feet +. Really doubt it would pass now anyhow. :gringrin:
 
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