Just wanted y'all to know that I think you've got a great site here. I've been lurking here for the last month or so while I worked on a 2210 carb off of my 1970 powerwagon. I know, its not a Scout, but if it helps at all the first 4x4 I ever worked on and loved was a 67 IH 800 Scout. (I still ask my friend from high school if he wants to sell it every time I see him). Without a doubt your technical articles on carbs are some of the best I've ever read. You can tell that you guys don't just talk about this stuff like some of the other sites I frequent do. Keep up the good work and people like me will continue to reap the benefits. Thanks from the south.
I'm from the south too!!!
- Thread starter bigben
- Start date
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
Thanks for the props ben! And welcome to the forum,...we're not prejudiced around here at all, we just want customers! I bet we got sumthin' ya need!
And I'm a 5th gen texian so I sure understand what the "south" means! I'd still be there except the weather suks, I do go back when the weather is right, I still got kids and grands there and moms and pops if ya can believe that at my age!
Don't be hesitant to ask stuff here, my first luv is chrysler stuff from the 60's!!!! That's what I came of age scruuin' with! And there is no finer near drop-in engine swap for any IH rig than a "b" block chrysler!! And we got more than one chrysler-powered Scout II in our club up here.
And I'm a 5th gen texian so I sure understand what the "south" means! I'd still be there except the weather suks, I do go back when the weather is right, I still got kids and grands there and moms and pops if ya can believe that at my age!
Don't be hesitant to ask stuff here, my first luv is chrysler stuff from the 60's!!!! That's what I came of age scruuin' with! And there is no finer near drop-in engine swap for any IH rig than a "b" block chrysler!! And we got more than one chrysler-powered Scout II in our club up here.
I do actually have a question you can probably help me with.
As I said earlier I've been tinkering on a 2210 carb on my powerwagon for the last month or so trying to get my truck to run a little better and trying to undo a lot of the butchery that had been done on it in the past. It had a manual choke hooked to the drivers side of the choke air valve with all the fast idle pieces missing. So needless to say the choke didn't work too well. After figuring out (with the use of your website) that my carb was missing a few pieces. I used some Christmas money and bought a new Holley 350cfm carb.
I got the carb on the truck this weekend and it runs a whole lot better now, but the choke still doesn't seem to work like I think it should.
When cold if you pull the choke all the way closed the motor will not run unless you pump the gas and or keep the pedal slightly depressed. If you open the choke slightly. I'd say about 1/8 inch of opening the motor runs like it's on the fast idle but visually it is not. What can I do to get the motor to run while on full choke or do I need to just get a better feel for what the motor likes.
I'm running 9 degrees initial advance. Need to check my vacuum and mechanical advance numbers. Idle is set at 900 rpms as someone put a fairly aggressive cam (lunati 292 duration, found the box and the stock cam behind the seat) in the truck in the past and it doesn't like to idle any lower. 318ci. Accel distributor, dodge ignition box, accel coil and wires. Thanks again
As I said earlier I've been tinkering on a 2210 carb on my powerwagon for the last month or so trying to get my truck to run a little better and trying to undo a lot of the butchery that had been done on it in the past. It had a manual choke hooked to the drivers side of the choke air valve with all the fast idle pieces missing. So needless to say the choke didn't work too well. After figuring out (with the use of your website) that my carb was missing a few pieces. I used some Christmas money and bought a new Holley 350cfm carb.
I got the carb on the truck this weekend and it runs a whole lot better now, but the choke still doesn't seem to work like I think it should.
When cold if you pull the choke all the way closed the motor will not run unless you pump the gas and or keep the pedal slightly depressed. If you open the choke slightly. I'd say about 1/8 inch of opening the motor runs like it's on the fast idle but visually it is not. What can I do to get the motor to run while on full choke or do I need to just get a better feel for what the motor likes.
I'm running 9 degrees initial advance. Need to check my vacuum and mechanical advance numbers. Idle is set at 900 rpms as someone put a fairly aggressive cam (lunati 292 duration, found the box and the stock cam behind the seat) in the truck in the past and it doesn't like to idle any lower. 318ci. Accel distributor, dodge ignition box, accel coil and wires. Thanks again
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
Is the carb you installed the Holley list 7448, 2300 series?
If not, which list number do you have. I need to know that so I can describe the choke setup to ya.
I could toss some stuff out but that might take ya down the wrong path, so let's make a for certain id!
I put way over 50k miles on a '65 dodge pickup with the big block 318 (the poly-head version) hauling my race scooters and as a shop truck. When I got that rig I was working as a mechanic inna chrysler/dodge dealership while in school. Then 150k onna '73 dodge van/318 doing the same!
If not, which list number do you have. I need to know that so I can describe the choke setup to ya.
I could toss some stuff out but that might take ya down the wrong path, so let's make a for certain id!
I put way over 50k miles on a '65 dodge pickup with the big block 318 (the poly-head version) hauling my race scooters and as a shop truck. When I got that rig I was working as a mechanic inna chrysler/dodge dealership while in school. Then 150k onna '73 dodge van/318 doing the same!
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
Ok on the 7448, we're intimately familiar with those around here!
For folks who have never delt with a manual choke system on a vehicle before, there is a learning curve on just how "much" choke is needed to both start the engine (even when warm) and how to set up the fast idle side of the equation which must be a part of the choke operational scheme!
It would be nice to say that all these new 2300 carbs had the fast idle set and coordinated with the choke actuator when they were assembled...in a perfect world...maybe. But in actuality, hardly ever! And that is part of the setup stuff we do here when we sell these carbs ourselves, we make sure the setup on 'em (even those we convert to electric choke) is done right.
So...first off, "adjust" your choke cable so that you cannot fully close the choke plate down tight! An automatic choke on these carbs of any design includes a "choke break" that allows the choke plate to be cracked open when the throttle pedal is pushed wide open to overcome any "flooding" which occurred due to other engine issues or incorrect choke application. But your setup does not allow that function, so ya have to learn how not to flood the engine from too much choke! You are right, you will just have to fine-tune the cold starting drill once the mechanical adjustments are locked in.
Set the cable so that when pulled "out", it allows about 1/4" of "opening" of the choke plate away from the air horn, that way, air can enter the carb and prevent a flood condition. Do not allow the choke plate to fully close. On the other hand, when the cable is pushed in, make certain the choke plate goes tight against it's stop and is wide open.
Once the cable is adjusted, then set the fast idle screw on the passenger side of the carb to provide a fast idle rpm of about 1400>1600rpm at that point. For the choke system to operate correctly it must be coordinated with the fast idle setting...otherwise, the only way to provide fast idle is with your foot and that is not how these mixers are designed to operate! But then you have already discovered that!
That fast idle adjustment screw can be a real bitch to access. On some applications the carb must be removed in order to tweek it!
If the accel distributor is the normal aftermarket unit, it does not have the "dual diaphragm" advance can like some of the oem stuff did with the "two stage" or dual vacuum advance. That can needs to plug into the vacuum port on the side of the 2300 metering block as that is the only "ported" vacuum source on that carb. On most rigs with a curb idle of around 700rpm, you will see between 0 >3"hg at that port, with vacuum increasing in direct proportion to throttle plate angle. With the cam you describe, I agree that your curb idle will have to be determined through experimentation, so rig a vacuum gauge on the advance nipple and verify the vacuum levels you see at curb idle and as the throttle plate angle is slowly steepened. The vacuum increase should be linear and not take a big jump.
The "ported" vacuum level is also affected by whether or not the choke is engaged along with fast idle, with the choke "on", vacuum will increase, so when the choke is on, the vacuum readings mean nothing.
Also...I'd set the idle mix screws at 2.5 turns out from seat now, that is a starting point, once the motor is up to temp, then those can be finalized.
Be patient, you will be very pleased with the results once all the details are taken care of, I know the marketing hype talks about "drop-in replacement...but that is total smokeblow, every swaperoo like this has it's own set of unique details to attend to!
For folks who have never delt with a manual choke system on a vehicle before, there is a learning curve on just how "much" choke is needed to both start the engine (even when warm) and how to set up the fast idle side of the equation which must be a part of the choke operational scheme!
It would be nice to say that all these new 2300 carbs had the fast idle set and coordinated with the choke actuator when they were assembled...in a perfect world...maybe. But in actuality, hardly ever! And that is part of the setup stuff we do here when we sell these carbs ourselves, we make sure the setup on 'em (even those we convert to electric choke) is done right.
So...first off, "adjust" your choke cable so that you cannot fully close the choke plate down tight! An automatic choke on these carbs of any design includes a "choke break" that allows the choke plate to be cracked open when the throttle pedal is pushed wide open to overcome any "flooding" which occurred due to other engine issues or incorrect choke application. But your setup does not allow that function, so ya have to learn how not to flood the engine from too much choke! You are right, you will just have to fine-tune the cold starting drill once the mechanical adjustments are locked in.
Set the cable so that when pulled "out", it allows about 1/4" of "opening" of the choke plate away from the air horn, that way, air can enter the carb and prevent a flood condition. Do not allow the choke plate to fully close. On the other hand, when the cable is pushed in, make certain the choke plate goes tight against it's stop and is wide open.
Once the cable is adjusted, then set the fast idle screw on the passenger side of the carb to provide a fast idle rpm of about 1400>1600rpm at that point. For the choke system to operate correctly it must be coordinated with the fast idle setting...otherwise, the only way to provide fast idle is with your foot and that is not how these mixers are designed to operate! But then you have already discovered that!
That fast idle adjustment screw can be a real bitch to access. On some applications the carb must be removed in order to tweek it!
If the accel distributor is the normal aftermarket unit, it does not have the "dual diaphragm" advance can like some of the oem stuff did with the "two stage" or dual vacuum advance. That can needs to plug into the vacuum port on the side of the 2300 metering block as that is the only "ported" vacuum source on that carb. On most rigs with a curb idle of around 700rpm, you will see between 0 >3"hg at that port, with vacuum increasing in direct proportion to throttle plate angle. With the cam you describe, I agree that your curb idle will have to be determined through experimentation, so rig a vacuum gauge on the advance nipple and verify the vacuum levels you see at curb idle and as the throttle plate angle is slowly steepened. The vacuum increase should be linear and not take a big jump.
The "ported" vacuum level is also affected by whether or not the choke is engaged along with fast idle, with the choke "on", vacuum will increase, so when the choke is on, the vacuum readings mean nothing.
Also...I'd set the idle mix screws at 2.5 turns out from seat now, that is a starting point, once the motor is up to temp, then those can be finalized.
Be patient, you will be very pleased with the results once all the details are taken care of, I know the marketing hype talks about "drop-in replacement...but that is total smokeblow, every swaperoo like this has it's own set of unique details to attend to!
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
Two ways...
1) just don't pull the cable all the way "out"!
2) adjust the conduit in the clamp so that even if pulled "hard", the choke plate will not close completely.
I prefer option #1 and train the user in how to use the choke!
This same thing occurs when we set up the electric choke kit on these carbs for first-time users who are used to either manual chokes or pooter-drive cars! They have to be "trained" in a new starting drill, both a cold start and a hot re-start!
Used option #1 with a sharpie Mark on the pull handle at the right place. Adjusted the fast idle, luckily mine is relatively easy to get to. Now its two pumps of the accelerator and she fires right up and idles at 1600rpms until warm enough to idle without the choke. Thanks for the help.
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
Perfect man!
Dam I miss my dodges!
We gotta wannabe dodge now, a '01 "rango with that dam throwaway 4.7l pukemotor. The ECM is programmed to crap the whole rig at exactly 100k miles!
It sukked head gaskets back in October. Then lost third gear in the slushbox early January. Need to have a buddy reset the tranny/ECM, I hate these freakin' electronic pooter vehicles. This one is gonna get wholesaled real soon and replaced with a Scout II or Travelall for momma's dd. I'm through with "modern" shit, most especially since the auto industry has been nationalized in the u.s. (Ford will eventually be sukked up too).
I help another young feller local with a supernice '67 p-wagon, I've tried to take it away from him, or scruu him out of it some way, but he won't bite!
BigEasyRider
New member
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
Shit man, you boys got me goin' now!
Ezrider's ride looks just like the one I help that boy in town with!!
The dodge rigs have much in common with the IH stuff of the same era. Very similar electrical system, used nearly the same drivetrain components, very utilitarian-oriented, etc. Only they were not "pre-rotted" when we took 'em off the transporter at the dealership!
And in my book, the slant six was the toughest engine ever produced by anyone, they make an IH sv look like throwaways!
We do have a real dodge left also, this one has historical ties to the piece of dirt where the shopshack is located, I think it's a '37/'38 but it's way too far gone to do anything with. It's now garden art and serves as a roosting spot for critters while they eyeball the garden in the back yard.
Attachments
BigEasyRider
New member
Man if it wasn't for that one sad little tree in front of the ol dodge that would be a postcard picture. I sure miss living up north.
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
And I miss the south (at the right time of the year!)!! I used to put in a lotta time in nawlins and baton rouge!
That first pic was last March after the trees had started leafin', lasted about two weeks. The garden went in real late last year due to the extended cold and snow.
This pic is from dec. 19 of '08. Big early snow and it didn't go away until late mid-feb. Which is very unusual for our elevation in the valley which is only 700ft.
That's a '57 s-120 IH ambulance (very rare!!) in that shot parked next to a '75 f-250 cab we parted out. This pic is hanging in large format on the wall in the living room!
Attachments
Man I love the crew cabs. Wish mine was one. Dodge was way ahead of their time on that one. Went through the local Chevy lot the other day every truck there was either a crew cab or at least an extended cab and I'm sure the dodge and Ford dealers are the same. I'll have to take a pic of my beast tomorrow and post it so you can salivate a little more michael.