ignition switch changeout
- Thread starter dlinan
- Start date
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
Dude, ya gotta give us a clue as to what vehicle!!!! Please post vehicle details whenever asking for technical assistance.
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
The ignition switch on a Scout II and 74/75 pickall is on the rear of the steering column about half-way down and is operated by a push/pull rod from the steering column lock mechanism. Easy access to change out.
mjolnir
Member
I'm also working on a 1980 Scout II with a ralley wheel wanting to repair a faulty switch or the rod. The key position for starting seemed to advance its self on a clock face from 2 o'clock to 4 o'clock where by you had to contort your wrist before it would start. Well it finally failed to start.
The first thing that is confusing is that there is no lock plate as shown in my repair manual and I also do not see a snap ring.
Pictured here is where I'm at and my question is does this cancelling cam suppose to just pull of?
the broken part of it leads me to beleive the po tried to pry it off and broke the edge.
Any help appreciated,
mjolnir
The first thing that is confusing is that there is no lock plate as shown in my repair manual and I also do not see a snap ring.
Pictured here is where I'm at and my question is does this cancelling cam suppose to just pull of?
the broken part of it leads me to beleive the po tried to pry it off and broke the edge.Any help appreciated,
mjolnir
Attachments
The cancelling cam (yellow) is a tight "slip fit" on the steering shaft.
Disconnect the battery (which I hope is already done).
Since it has not come off easily, you May want to put a couple drops of wd-40 or similiar around the steering shaft.
The metal rig around the shaft looks to be part of the cam -- sometimes they are separate (other old vehicles).
With two slim bladed screw drivers pry very carefully and slowly at opposite sides and you should be able to work it free without further damage eventually.
From the point of view of when the vehicle was new, you would just grasp the cam with your fingers and lift straight with the shaft and it would just slide off. But, we are past the "when it was new" with these vehicles...
Disconnect the battery (which I hope is already done).
Since it has not come off easily, you May want to put a couple drops of wd-40 or similiar around the steering shaft.
The metal rig around the shaft looks to be part of the cam -- sometimes they are separate (other old vehicles).
With two slim bladed screw drivers pry very carefully and slowly at opposite sides and you should be able to work it free without further damage eventually.
From the point of view of when the vehicle was new, you would just grasp the cam with your fingers and lift straight with the shaft and it would just slide off. But, we are past the "when it was new" with these vehicles...
Last edited:
mjolnir
Member
Robert:
the clip can't be seen unless you press down the cancelling cam. I'm wondering if the cancelling cam is stout enough to press against to overcome the upper bearing preload spring. If its not I'll be looking for a plan "b". Actually I still need a plan "a" or a idea for a tool to do the job. I guess I will modify the type shown in the manual.
Hoping dilinan will jump in here.
the clip can't be seen unless you press down the cancelling cam. I'm wondering if the cancelling cam is stout enough to press against to overcome the upper bearing preload spring. If its not I'll be looking for a plan "b". Actually I still need a plan "a" or a idea for a tool to do the job. I guess I will modify the type shown in the manual.
Hoping dilinan will jump in here.
There are snap ring pliers -- different types to "open" (and install) the different types of rings.
Sears or a real good hardware store May be the best choice. Imo, the "generic brand" parts stores do not have much selection. You can look at sears.com...
Some rings are just an open metal ring -- the tool has small "flat tabs" that you place in the opening and then press the pliers which will open the ring enough to get it off.
Other snap rings have "ends" with small holes -- another kind of plier has different sets of "tips" and you use the tip that tightly fits the ring you are trying to remove.
Wear safety glasses because sometimes the ring can "fly off"...
Sears or a real good hardware store May be the best choice. Imo, the "generic brand" parts stores do not have much selection. You can look at sears.com...
Some rings are just an open metal ring -- the tool has small "flat tabs" that you place in the opening and then press the pliers which will open the ring enough to get it off.
Other snap rings have "ends" with small holes -- another kind of plier has different sets of "tips" and you use the tip that tightly fits the ring you are trying to remove.
Wear safety glasses because sometimes the ring can "fly off"...
I had to purchase a tool to press down on the preloaded spring in order to remove the snap riing. I tried several times before admitting defeat to the spring and buying the tool. It was only $11 dollars and should be available at most auto parts stores. It's called a steering wheel lock plate tool remover and installer. The retainig ring on my truck was a simple wire type and I was able to remove it simply enough with two small straight screwdrivers. After that, use great care in pulling the turn signal cam out so you don't break any wires. I was able to pull mine loose enough to get access to the release for the ignition switch cylinder. You will need a small bladed screwdriver to get to the release. There is an access hole right beneath the top right, cast screw hole. I found another thread on this forum that had pics to locate the hole. It was very useful or I would have never found it. It was under basic tech questions and titled replacing ignition lock cylinder. Hope this helps.
Dan
Dan
mjolnir
Member
Robert & dan:
I made the tool last night and got the snap ring off this morning.
Dan; a couple questions: did your's look exactly like my 1st pic? I'm thinking that is the way all the 1980's are which is different than what is shown in the repair manual?
Second ? Was the ring above the yellow canceling cam: again my manual shows it below the yellow canceling cam on the exploded view. I'll just go back the way I found it as I never had any issues.
Just wondering if its a 1980's thing or a po thing.
Thanks for everyones help. At least I haven't broken anything yet while I'm trying to fix it. Of course I'm not done yet
I made the tool last night and got the snap ring off this morning.
Dan; a couple questions: did your's look exactly like my 1st pic? I'm thinking that is the way all the 1980's are which is different than what is shown in the repair manual?
Second ? Was the ring above the yellow canceling cam: again my manual shows it below the yellow canceling cam on the exploded view. I'll just go back the way I found it as I never had any issues.
Just wondering if its a 1980's thing or a po thing.
Thanks for everyones help. At least I haven't broken anything yet while I'm trying to fix it. Of course I'm not done yet
Attachments
Your statement (above) and the statements of a couple other people plus my experience with the rear brakes (just looking) of my 1210 t/a leads me to believe that
the service manuals are a "guide" for fixing / repairing an IH vehicle -- not the end all / be all reference guide to every "variation" that exists among a large group of IH vehicles.
To find what your vehicle had stock from the factory (before po "improvements"), you need the parts manual for the vehicle along with the LST. The service manual May not be showing you the "correct" picture.
So, putting it back together as taken apart is the best plan.
I have no idea, but there May be slight variations in the steering columns between different year scouts; maybe diesel scouts are slightly different from gas scouts... Maybe the cancelling cam / snap ring are the same for all Scout steering columns; maybe not...
I had my t/a serviced at the dealer where I bought it. The first thinig they asked for was the LST (I did not know what it was). The parts guy used the LST to go against the parts book (microfiche in those days) to find the correct parts.
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
Boyz...boyz...boyz!
There are variations in the saginaw steering column assemblies over the years, both regarding the tilt version and the none-tilt. And that is in regard to the "locking" version of the column used in Scout II and only the '74/'75 pickalls.
The parts list defines the cut point for "which" column is used in what chassis number. Some component level interchange is possible,...some is not.
Since bobby's m/y 80 sii column is the "last" version, it's somewhat different. Back in the day, because those columns were so ez to defeat the lock system (destroying it in the process), saginaw did a half-assed redesign to increase the effectiveness of the key lock system. But within a few weeks of release car thieves around the kuntry figgrd out how to defeat the "new and improved" version even faster.
The variation is covered in the last version of the Scout II service manual, the two volume set that is available now under id number 2313. This is one more example of how the old saw "they are all the same" is an urban myth in the ihc world.
There are variations in the saginaw steering column assemblies over the years, both regarding the tilt version and the none-tilt. And that is in regard to the "locking" version of the column used in Scout II and only the '74/'75 pickalls.
The parts list defines the cut point for "which" column is used in what chassis number. Some component level interchange is possible,...some is not.
Since bobby's m/y 80 sii column is the "last" version, it's somewhat different. Back in the day, because those columns were so ez to defeat the lock system (destroying it in the process), saginaw did a half-assed redesign to increase the effectiveness of the key lock system. But within a few weeks of release car thieves around the kuntry figgrd out how to defeat the "new and improved" version even faster.
The variation is covered in the last version of the Scout II service manual, the two volume set that is available now under id number 2313. This is one more example of how the old saw "they are all the same" is an urban myth in the ihc world.