Ignition and coil question

Travis

Member
Hello all. So here are my questions in the right section now.

1. Where is #1, #2, #3, and so on cylinders? I read on here that #8 is passenger side back(at fire wall) and #1 is driver side front. Is this correct?
2. How should the coil be wired? I am getting 12v. With or with out a resistor to the + side and then 0 or 12v out the other side depending on if points are open or closed. Is this right?

Thanks for your time. Looking forward to getting this on the road and trails.
Travis
 
Ok, so I finally got a hold of a guy and he told me that #8 is passenger side back cylinder. And the passenger side goes 2,4,6,8 front to back and 1,3,5,7 front to back driver side. Sound right? Thanks
 
Ok travis, now we'll be able to make these kinds of threads much more "search-friendly"!

This forum is rapidly expanding over the last few weeks and we want to make it as easy to use as possible!

The IH sv (in IH-speak that refers to "small v8") engine series has the cylinders numbered as follows:

viewing from the front of the vehicle, back towards the engine compartment bulkhead, the cylinders on the driver-side bank are numbered 1>3>5>7. The cylinders on the passenger-side bank are numbered 2>4>6>8.

The firing order for the sv motor is:

1, 8, 4, 3, 6, 5, 7, 2.

On the oem intake manifold (which is a medium high-rise/dual plane design), each runner carries the cylinder designation cast in once you clean all the accumulated grunge off. Also...the firing order is cast into a runner for reference.

The reason that these engines must have a timing light connected to #8 spark plug wire, is that the design of the harmonic balancer which carries the timing reference Mark, and also the timing "tab/grid" cast into the timing cover, does not allow the Mark to appear properly if the timing light is connected to #1 as is common with most all other "conventional" v8 engine designs.

This is always confusing to folks who have limited knowledge of these engines, or who have never worked with one before. These motors have nothing in common with chryfordrolets except for the fact they all burn gasoline. Ya cannot compare them in that regard, volumetric efficiency of an sv as compared with other engines is way low so the standard "formulas" don't apply!

When performing many routine sv engine operations, #1 cylinder is used as a reference point, but when setting/verifying base ignition timing, we must use #8!

Since you said your distributor uses breaker points, that means it is either a Holley, delco, or a prestolite points distributor. Before trying to set the timing, you must set the dwell (or point gap if you prefer), in this case, that factor is the same for all three distributors. The correct dwell factor to use is between 28* and 31*, I prefer the middle of that scale. That translates to a point "gap" when measured with a thickness gauge of 0.016". Using a thickness gauge on a delco distributor is virtually impossible, a dwell meter should be used.

As for the ignition coil wiring...

The coil you should use will have a primary resistance factor of a minimum of 1.5ohms cold and a maximum value of 2.0ohms cold. That spec provides optimum coil "saturation"... With a current draw through the primary side of the ignition system of approximately 3.2 amps at an idle speed of 700 rpm...that factor is engineered into the system. Those numbers are not derived from "ohm's law"...but based upon real world operating engines, using data gleaned from 40+ years of actual measurement! And the operating voltage of the vehicle when running and the alternator/generator is charging correctly is between 13.2 and 14.6vdc! It is not 12 volts which is only a nominal "reference" spec! This spec also provides maximum breaker point life if all sub-systems are correct, a set of points has always been considered to be a "replacement" item at the 12k>15k mileage point.

On an oem ignition system (w/points), you should have two wires connected to the positive (+) side of the coil, one is fed b+ (battery terminal voltage) when the ignition switch is in the "start"position. The other wire was originally a "resistor" wire, it must be exactly 58">60" in length and will show a resistance of 1.8ohms when checked end-to-end with a dvom. Some vehicles have a "workaround" because that wire went up in flames at some point. The workaround is a ballast resistor of the same value as the resistor wire. It is imperative that regarding a points system, there is a "ballasted" feed to the coil when the ignition switch is in the "run" position. The negative (-) side of the coil is connected with the single wire to the breaker point insulated terminal, as is the pigtail from the condenser inside the distributor. The condenser (capacitor) which May be present on the oem coil bracket is only for rfi (ignition noise) suppression and has nothing to do with ignition system operation, it can be discarded if desired.

With a ballast feed, you would see an approximate 9vdc at the coil...that voltage signal, combined with the designed-in resistance of the ignition coil (if it's correct application) will provide the above-mentioned current draw across the primary side of the system.

The above data is correct for only the sv engine/system, the I-4 and I-6 engines are completely different in characteristics, though the same principals apply. The ballast value and the primary coil winding value would be different...and to further confuse ya, the proper dwell spec also depends upon which distributor is being used!

With the above information, you should be able to convince the motor it needs to run, along as ya got compression and fuel in that right mix with air!
 
Last edited:
Man thats helpful. Thanks. Ok so I copied this below from your post. Insulated teminal. Does that mean isolated as well. From ground? I am trying to understand how the points work now. When closed they actually ground out and prevent spark? Is it possible to have the wrong points? When the points close for me, they ground out the coils negative side. Is this right? When the points open the wire from that (-) side of the coil reads +12v.



"the negative (-) side of the coil is connected with the single wire to the breaker point insulated terminal, as is the pigtail from the condenser inside the distributor. The condenser (capacitor) which May be present on the oem coil bracket is only for rfi (ignition noise) suppression and has nothing to do with ignition system operation, it can be discarded if desired."
 
We keep loosing our electricity up here, when that happens I loose my monitor even though I'm running from a docked laptop right now. And I'm trying to get the jungle shredded down before the Binder Bee!

The "movable" arm of the breaker point set is insulated from ground, that is where the wire from the negative (-) coil terminal connects. The condenser inside the distributor also connects to the same terminal on the insulated side of the connecting screw.

Depending upon which distributor you are using, there is some method for grounding the "breaker plate" to which the points mount, to the actual distributor body. That is usually a braided copper wire segment with a screw eye in each end for making the connection. That allows the breaker plate to move (movement provided by the vacuum advance unit) yet always maintain that ground connection.

The non-moving side of the breaker point set is the ground side.

The actual ionization of the spark plug gap (the "spark"), occurs at the instant that the breaker points open, the points are a simple switch which makes and breaks 8 times per single distributor cam revolution. That allows the primary magnetic field to "collapse" with the flux of the collapse inducing a high voltage/low current arc across the plug gap. That is why the kettering-design ignition system is referred to as an "inductive" system (remember that word, we'll use that many times in this forum!!!).

When the points are closed (the so-called "dwell" period), current flows through the primary side of the coil (which is basically only a transformer) to ground. When the points suddenly open, the current flow stops, but the principle of inductance causes the secondary winding to step up the voltage to a point at which the plug gap May ionize.

What we really need to go any further here, are some good, well-focused pictures of your distributor from the outside, and the inside. Also a shot of the coil showing the wiring connections. Without knowing exactly what setup you have, there are at least four different breaker point distributors which might be installed in that engine. Also...is the wiring harness fairly stock...or has it been swapped out for something else, or butchered by a previous owner???

I was writing a rather long post early this morning regarding distributor identification...but I lost it when the juice went away. That's gonna take some time to reconstruct! So just post some pics and lemme see whatcha got!
 
Back
Top