I need to see the master (Mayben).

C

Chris Pucci

Active member
For the life of me I can not get my brothers truck to run correctly....

I give up. I need to see the master.

I have the follwoing days free that I could bring the truck down to your place for a quick once over.

Sept. 27
oct. 2 or 3 or 4


in the mean time I can detail what I have tried and can try anyhting else....
 
Stats:
345 - unknown rebuild by my Dad and brother.
Shinny new edelbrock 1406 - stock out of the box.
Petronix in Holley dist.
Msd big fat wires.
New cap
new rotor
new autolite 85 plugs
out of my parts pile coil marked "for use with primary resistance of 1.8 ohms" ran fine on my truck.
All new wiring everywhere with ez-harness
timing set at 5 degrees.
Making only 15" vacuum at the full vacuum port off the base of the carb.
No obvious vacuum leaks at the base of the carb intake (checked with propane...)
fires right up.
Idles high until you 'bump it down'
idles poorly at 700 rpm.
Runs rough as you stomp on it.
Does run up to max prm.
Comes back down to idle.
Does drive, shift, stop, steer.


Problems:
runs Rich!!
Low idle vacuum
runs like crap through rpm range
surges under load.
Did I say it ran like crap yet?
 
From what I have read here, edelbrock has instructions posted on its website on how to setup ("tune") their carbs.

Have you looked at that info?

Robert kenney knows a lot about the carbs and can help you -- he has posted replies to other people's questions here.
 
robertc said:
from what I have read here, edelbrock has instructions posted on its website on how to setup ("tune") their carbs.

Have you looked at that info?

Robert kenney knows a lot about the carbs and can help you -- he has posted replies to other people's questions here.
Click to expand...

I tried using the instructions that came with the carb -- setting idles, idle mix, etc. Nothing really happened. I think there is something else wrong and I have looked at it too long to 'see' it.
 
ihojeff said:
does it have fresh gas or are you trying to burn off some 1 year plus old gas?
Click to expand...


Gas is fresh -- kind of. I topped off the tank last week when I thought it was empty....

I could drain the tank and start over. That would be easy enough.


Good idea. I could also swap in a new sending unit when the tank is empty....

*******fuel sender purchased! Thanks ihonlynorth!!!*******************
 
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robertc said:
actually, what I am talking about is changing internal pieces ("tubes" -- cannot remember the correct terms)...

Check Robert kenney's posts -- I will try to find one -- to give you a better idea.

Here is one, though it is not the one I was thinking of

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/carb-tech/2073-edelbrock-1405-tuning-questions.html
Click to expand...

At my house I am not authorized to make any internal carb adjustments due to past carb problems (did I say I hate carbs yet?). It is best if I stay out of them. I do have a complete edlebrock carb tuning 'kit' with all the different colored parts and pieces. I have not used any of them though...
 
chris pucci said:
at my house I am not authorized to make any internal carb adjustments due to past carb problems (did I say I hate carbs yet?). It is best if I stay out of them. I do have a complete edlebrock carb tuning 'kit' with all the different colored parts and pieces. I have not used any of them though...
Click to expand...

Gotcha.... :icon_cool: totally understand...

I thought I would "provide" some reading material before you made it to michael's
 
chris pucci said:
at my house I am not authorized to make any internal carb adjustments due to past carb problems (did I say I hate carbs yet?). It is best if I stay out of them. I do have a complete edlebrock carb tuning 'kit' with all the different colored parts and pieces. I have not used any of them though...
Click to expand...

I have counseled with amber in the past regarding chris' and carbs...it ain't purdee!

We just got home from the dunes trip, stayed an extra nite. Your IHSTO secretary turned off my "tethering" feature on the cellphone so that my ss check stretches farther each month, so I wasn't able to check in here and trying to write a post on the forum from the smartphone is near impossible!

I can work with ya about any time after Wednesday as I got mucho customer work to get wet tested and shipped before I can take on anythang else.

There is possibility I'll be going up to gresham either Thursday or Friday to do an evaluation onna rig there, bet we could work out something in that time frame!

Is the pertronix that ya used in the Holley distributor, the p/n 1481? And...was this definitely a point-type distributor to begin with not a gold box?? If so, was this one the version that advises to use the small clear piece of acrylic that came with it for setting the "air gap when ya mount the p-tron? If so, did you do that? The "distance" (or thickness) obtained when using that gauge is 0.030".

If it's the "latest" p-tron, you should have found a small plastic ring included with the magnet wheel, that goes under the magnet wheel, not on top, the instructions don't tell ya that!

A gold box distributor uses a different p=tron p/n.

I'd not make any changes in the carb other than verify that the choke is pulling off completely when warmed up. The idle mixture screws will normally be very ballpark at 2.5 turns out from seated. None of the "tuning" parts really have any effect in working through the issues you describe, these carbs will have a very "ok" idle quality out of the box onna sv engine. But...I do occasionally run into this same thing with these mixers new...and that is the float/fuel levels on each side are really punkee. Very poor quality control at the manufacturing point...that will wreak havoc with the idle quality in the manner you describe.

My suggestion, doublecheck the p-tron install, then re-set the idle mixture screws after a full worm up and verification the choke is being held fully pulled off. Other than that, don't mess with the evidence until we get together!
 
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I will work on getting it running on clean fresh gas.

The petronix is the 1481 and it is a Holley distributor. I used the plastic shim to set the air gap, I still have it and will recheck the gap. All original, converted from points, no gold box ever. The truck still thinks it is a 1971 Scout II...

I will not monkey further with the carb.


I am pretty sure the choke is fully opening - it kicks down to regular idle very nicely. But I have no idea if it is still dumping gas at that point.... :confused5:


I have plenty to do so not working on the carb will be no problem.
 
chris pucci said:
I will work on getting it running on clean fresh gas.

The petronix is the 1481 and it is a Holley distributor. I used the plastic shim to set the air gap, I still have it and will recheck the gap. All original, converted from points, no gold box ever. The truck still thinks it is a 1971 Scout II...

I will not monkey further with the carb.


I am pretty sure the choke is fully opening - it kicks down to regular idle very nicely. But I have no idea if it is still dumping gas at that point.... :confused5:


I have plenty to do so not working on the carb will be no problem.
Click to expand...

Ok! That was all the "easy" stuff I knew ya could check!

This shitforgas we call gasoline nowadays has an effective "shelf life" of about two weeks when exposed to air (the vent system in the fuel delivery setup). Then it's volatility is reduced to something about as effective as lamp oil or charcoal lighter fluid.

I work with folks all across the country that have this same issue...their "projects" have been sitting for months with gasoline in the tank(s), but once they finally get to the point of making 'em run, it comes down to deteriorated gasoline, shit just won't light off! Lottsa cash wasted on carbs, ignition systems, engine overhaul when all that's wrong is the fuel in the tank(s).

The "gas" we attempt to burn today...is not yore mamma's gasoline...or yore grandmamma's gasoline!
 
I am an idiot.

So I topped off the gas tank the other day when I thought it was out of gas. I poured about 4.5 gallons in and it shoots back at me and appeared to be sitting all in the fill hose. "thats weird it must be full" I thought. Fuel gauge read barely 1/4 tank. With the old dash the gauge was never accurate so I had no idea if the tank was full or empty or otherwise.

Fast forward to last night. I hooked up my super sweet spare efi fuel pump to empty the tank of the old gas (pump connected up by the carb sucking through the old filter with enough extra hose to feed it into a tank on the ground). I have 3 gas cans lined up ready to fill. I start everything up and it begins to pump away, and I start changing the oil to pass the time. After a while it starts making a funny sound --- and I am still on the first 5 gallons -- it is sucking air in the filter - it looks like the truck must be empty!! I disconnect the pump and start the truck to make sure the electric pump hasn't died or something -- the mechanical pump doesn't pump any fuel out either.

So sure enough -- I have only pumped 4 gallons out of the truck and it is dry.... So the truck was out of gas before - the gauge/sending unit probably works fine - I have a new sender on the way for no good reason. I'm an idiot.

I did buy 10 gallons of brand new gas and pour it in the truck with a brand new filter up by the carb. The gauge reads 1/2 tank... Idiot.
 
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chris pucci said:
I am an idiot.

So I topped off the gas tank the other day when I thought it was out of gas. I poured about 4.5 gallons in and it shoots back at me and appeared to be sitting all in the fill hose. "thats weird it must be full" I thought. Fuel gauge read barley 1/4 tank. With the old dash the gauge was never accurate so I had no idea if the tank was full or empty or otherwise.

Fast forward to last night. I hooked up my super sweet spare efi fuel pump to empty the tank of the old gas (pump connected up by the carb sucking through the old filter with enough extra hose to feed it into a tank on the ground). I have 3 gas cans lined up ready to. I start everything up and it begins to pump away, and I start changing the oil to pass the time. After a while it starts making a funny sound --- and I am still on the first 5 gallons -- it is sucking air in the filter - it looks like the truck must be empty!! I disconnect the pump and start the truck to make sure the electric pump hasn't dided or soemthing -- the mechanical pump doesn't pump any fuel out either.

So sure enough -- I have only pumped 4 gallons out of the truck and it is dry.... So the truck was out of gas before - the gauge/sending unit probably works fine - I have a new sender on the way for no good reason. I'm an idiot.

I did buy 10 gallons of brand new gas and pour it in the truck with a brand new filter up by the carb. The gauge reads 1/2 tank... Idiot.
Click to expand...

I really don't have anything to say I just wanted to quote this....:dita:

it is nice to know that stupid crap like this happens to other people too...:p
reminds me of the time I tried for a day to start a Scout with a can full of diesel...:idea:
 
ss2 said:
I really don't have anything to say I just wanted to quote this....:dita:

it is nice to know that stupid crap like this happens to other people too...:p
reminds me of the time I tried for a day to start a Scout with a can full of diesel...:idea:
Click to expand...

It always started - always ran -- so I never considered that it could really be near empty or at 1/4 tank. Doh!
 
Yawl think this dum kinda shit only happens to yawl????

I face this every day when I pull similar stunts, yawl just don't know it 'cause I cover it up with bs!

Worst one...about three years ago, both Jeff and Mike Ismail we're hangin' over the fender of our s80 right after I got it running, they were here for "vacation". I was gonna impress 'em with how much piston slap this motor's got so they'd feel sorry for me and fix it while they were here.

Tried to crank...no start. Kept scruuin' with it...no start, it's normally an instant crank motor. Jeff sez..."outta gas". I say..."bullshit". I keep scruuin' around and no start.

I finally relent just to humor the children and pour in 5 gallons...bitch started right up.

Since then I always listen really well to kidz when they tell me shit!
 
Update -- a carb runs much leaner when all 8 spark plugs are working... I ass-u-me-d my lil' bro and Dad had tried to get the truck running on their own and had taken care of some of the basic stuff, which wasn't the case.

In checking compression on the cylinders I had a chance to pull all the plugs - which is when I found 2 plugs with a zero gap. Doh! That wouldn't work well at all.

So with all the plugs cleaned up and re-gapped to 0.035 the truck runs way better and not nearly as Rich.

Compression #'s where ok. Worst was 125#, most where 130#-135#, one was 145#.

Timing set to 5 degrees and idle reset to 700 rpms after plug monkeying. Idle mix re-set to mayben recommended 2.5 turns out.


The truck runs! And way better than I have ever seen it run...

I still need to dial in the idle mix and have a pro power tune it - but as it sits you could probably drive it to work...

Thanks for everyone pointing me in multiple directions and making me think through this. :icon_up:
 
That's called actin' like a mechanic chris! Maybe there is hope for ya after all, that didn't take no dam pooter, or math or trig to figgr out!

The vast majority of the time I see this same kinda stuff on rigs here that have had multiple owners/hands involved in trying (and failing) to bring 'em to life, it all comes down to the few simple basics that we all overlook. And regarding IH stuff in particular it's always the same kinda basics since much of the basics on this crap is somewhat different from chryfordrolet basics! Kinda like connecting a timing light to #8!

I'm proud of ya boy!
 
Good job, chris. We've all been there. I remember blaming the carb in carl's pu when the fuel filter was plugged with eastern oregon dirt. I remember hooking the electric choke up to the coil b+ in the rambleall. Fought that one for a long time.

Seems like there is always one more lesson to learn.

Lyle
 
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