HELP!

B

bennyaug

New member
Hey guys sorry this is my first post but I was driving to the doctors today in my 1978 Scout II 304. 1406 edelbrock carb. It has a weird issue when initially cold. I would die in gear. When I was leaving it would only stay on if I keep giving it gas in any gear. Before it would die just in gear when cold. I just installed a new ignitor II from pertronix. Battery is good. Fuel pressure is good as well. There is a slight vac leak at the base of the carb but I don't think that would cause it to all of a sudden not stay on. It will start right up but I have to give it gas. I replaced the mechanical fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel line, gas tank, alternator all in the span of a month any help would be appreciated thanks! The truck barely made it to work as I'm popping it into neutral and giving it gas. To clarify it will not stay on in any gear or idle. Please help. This Scout has been extremely frustrating for my first Scout II. Thanks!
 
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Congrats on your Scout II.

How about I ask for more info about your Scout in order to better assist you?? The more info & details from you the better.

You have a 1978 Scout II, 304 engine w/edelbrock 1406 carb and pertronix II ignition......

Q. Are you sure it is a 304 engine?
Q. What intake manifold do you have? Aluminum 4-barrel or cast iron 2-barrel with an adaptor/
q. Transmission: auto or manual?
Q. What is previous history of this Scout? Mileage? How long have you owned it? Etc. Etc. Etc.
Q. Which distributor do you have? You needed to know this in order to buy the proper pertronix.
Q. Mechanical fuel pump recently replaced, fuel tank and lines, etc. Replaced. Why??
Q. How much fuel pressure do you have at idle?
Q. Do you also have an electric fuel pump?
Q. Vacuum leak at base of carb. Why not fix this now?
Q. Ignition timing...what is your static timing now?
Q distributor....have you checked and verified the mechanical advance is working correctly?
Q distributor....have you checked and verified the vacuum advance is working correctly?
Q. What is the current engine curb idle now? Do you know how to adjust this?
Q. Carb...what type of choke is being utilized on this 1406 ?? Is it adjusted properly? Do you know how to adjust it?
Q. Do you have an IH service manual?

Find out as many answers as you can to these questions as I prefer to troubleshoot, then repair,...rather than throw parts at a problem or start adjusting things without knowing what is going on first.

P.s. If you don't know or don't know how to determine something, just say so. No shame there. We will tell you how to figure it out.

P.p.s. If you can provide photos of the engine, distributor, carb etc. That is always helpful.
 
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Good news: the issue is when it's cold, so I suspect it runs ok once warm.

Bad news: you have a short window to troubleshoot before it gets warm.

Try using a propane bottle with a torch tip to check for vacuum leaks. Start the Scout and with the torch all the way open but no fire:yikes: you can hold it near the suspected leak. If the rpms change your close to the vacuum leak.
 
One thing that isn't a mystery since it was disclosed right off the bat is the presence of vacuum leak. Step one is to eliminate that and then see where things stand. The carb idle air fuel mixture and idle speed could well need some adjusting, but those tasks will be difficult if not impossible with a vac leak.
 
So I fixed the original issue however when I try to lower the idle in park to 700 rpms it will die. I have to keep the idle high to keep the truck running. Thanks for all your help guys. Appreciate it
btw. Until last month I didn't even know how to change the oil. A lot has changed.
Q. Are you sure it is a 304 engine
yes
q. What intake manifold do you have? Aluminum 4-barrel or cast iron 2-barrel with an adaptor/
2 barrel
q. Transmission: auto or manual?
Automatic
q. What is previous history of this Scout? Mileage? How long have you owned it? Etc. Etc. Etc.
81000 just bought a month ago
q. Which distributor do you have? You needed to know this in order to buy the proper pertronix.
Yes Holley dist. 91481
q. Mechanical fuel pump recently replaced, fuel tank and lines, etc. Replaced. Why??
Tank was replaced because after the guy sold it to me he called me a day later and told me there is a hole. I live in hawaii so the vehicle was being shipped from oahu to kauai so it has to have low gas for shipping.. Didn't catch it. There was a giant rust hole at the top so I upgraded to the plastic tank because of hawaii rust. Fuel pump was replaced also because the guy told me it was running rough because gauge wasn't working correctly and no fuel, but it was the pump going out. Replaced it.
Q. How much fuel pressure do you have at idle?
6
q. Do you also have an electric fuel pump?
No. Can I connect it to the mechanical?
Q. Vacuum leak at base of carb. Why not fix this now?
I put the original carb back in. 2 barrel
q. Ignition timing...what is your static timing now?
No sure my buddy mechanic check the timing and made sure were all correct
q distributor....have you checked and verified the mechanical advance is working correctly?
Yes
q distributor....have you checked and verified the vacuum advance is working correctly?
Yes
q. What is the current engine curb idle now? Do you know how to adjust this?
Curb idle?
Q. Carb...what type of choke is being utilized on this 1406 ?? Is it adjusted properly? Do you know how to adjust it?
Put the 2 bar Holley back in.
Q. Do you have an IH service manual?
No
 
You're kind of caught between a rock and a hard spot carb-wise. On the one hand, you have a 4bbl carb adapted to a 2bbl intake, which has always seemed like such a square peg meets round hole option to me, and on the other hand you have the stock Holley 2210 2bbl, of which I am no big fan either. Given those two less than stellar options, I think I would have done just as you did and gone back to the stocker. So now you probably don't have a vacuum leak any more thanks to eliminating the monkey butt 4 to 2 adapter, which is great by the way, but your old stocker carb is probably decades overdue for a thorough reconditioning if not all out replacement with a better 2bbl option. Welcome to the wonderful world of 40 plus year old obsolete bastard vehicle ownership. We deal with this crap every day.
 
Are you saying the timing should be set at the 8 cyl? I put it on 1. Also with the new carb on it the vehicle little has no power. On a straight away it will slowly accelerate. Are the 304's that weak? Going up hill it will barely make it over 30. I have it lifted and has 35 inch baja mtz on it but I didn't think that would make that much of a diff on a v8.
 
Un like the big three engines, the IH motors (304/345/392) are all timed off of #8 cylinder. On the other hand, the IH 4 poppers are timed off #1
 
Yeah, if your mechanic friend, who's apparently never seen an IH motor, timed it off number 1, then that is a big part of your problem. Its probably retarded as hell, no pun intended. Which carb are you referring to when you say "new"? That term is cornfyoozing the issue. Please stick to 1406/2210 or Holley/edelbog so we can all stay on the same page. 35" tires are pretty big and heavy. That's a lot of rotating mass for an engine with retarded timing off #1 to turn. One other thing to consider is your axle gearing. If your gear ratio is high, which would be numerically low, such as 3.07 for example, that will also contribute to some sluggishness off the line. With that large a tire size and an auto trans, I don't think I'd want anything taller than a 3.54 to 1 gear ratio. 4.10 or 4.27 gears would be better. A 304 engine that is healthy and in a proper state of tune, which yours is clearly not at this point, will have no problem moving that rig down the road at a decent clip. If it runs like a turd because the ignition and fuel systems are out of whack, then it stands to reason that its going to move like a turd also.
 
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