Help again!!

[traveler]

We are going thru a 74 Scout II..and finding issues with bulkhead connectors..the big blue and red...and bypassing them.

We installed a new ingintion switch - did it right...but now the coil isn't receiving power...traced it...but the braided wire dissappears in the electric tape some where.

Here is the wierd part...it runs..but only if you hold the ignition is start...against the spring action.

As soon as you release the starter..it dies.
We can jump the coil to the battery...it runs fine.

Gettnig frustrated...chased down every wire today....all seems good.

Also (sorry such a pain) there are 2 flashers.....or somethign that looks like a flasher..but appears to not do anything.

Any clues?
And last....is a small rectangular 1/2 inch by 1 1/2 aluminum box with a 3 prong connector...to the right of the steering column...what is that?

I know...I know nothing...needy for sure.
John

 

[traveler]

Ok ..sorry fellas...I found the thread that discusses why engine runs only on start.

Apparently my coil resistance wire is not feeding current ( or enough) after starting. Hence the shut down.

I do see the resistance wire...I think its the braided wire not plastic insulated...but dang I can't find where it is supposed to go?

Does anyone have a diagram showing this circuit....and how im scrwing up?

Thanks!

 

[Michael Mayben]

I've previously posted nearly all pertinent wiring diagrams in threads both in this sub-forum and in the "electrical tech" sub-forum.

The three pole silver steel box you describe adjacent to the steering column is the relay for the neutral start system (nss) used with the t-407 autotrans application.

Yes, there are two "flashers". One is for the turn signals, the other is used for the four-way flasher system.

The "ballast wire" (resistance wire" is fed from one of the terminals in the engine-side bulkhead connector. The mating terminal on the passenger side is fed from the ignition switch and is not a resistance wire. That specific wire run/specs is described in the wiring schematics I've posted elsewhere.

 

[traveler]

Thanks micheal...you are a god!

Quick question
the looped red fuse wire that splices into the black 10 gauge at teh bulkhead connector...is fried in the bulkhead connector.

If I use 10 gauge and completely bypass that fuseable wire...do I run any risks? Or would it be better to fuse it with an inline fuse to keep it from burning other connections? And what amperage?

If I can exploit you further...on the ignition switch on the base of the column....is a large white wire...alone...is that the starter wire? The po put a start button in and folded back the white wire down by the starter...that once started the car ...he then ran a new wire to the cab butto...then to the battery...so I am trying to trace that old white wire to see if it is the same as the white wire on the ignition switch.

I know I need a good schematic...running blind..maybe you have a schematic of the ignition switch connections so I can tell which connections do what. I saw the pictures of the wiring diagrams...but they are hard for me to read clearly...bad eyes. I don't actually see the ignition switch connections on those pictures.

I owe you! How to repay???

 

[Michael Mayben]

How to repay??? Best way...send me a scan of your credit card with the highest available balance, front and rear! I'll take care of the repayment!!

You must use either the oem-type fusible link material to protect that feed to the fuse panel through the ammeter! That is the "master fuse" for the entire system. And po workarounds in that area are nearly always the root cause of engine compartment or cabin fires resulting in total vehicle loss! And not just for ihc schnizz but for any motor vehicle!

One nice repair system would be to use a "maxifuse" system or an a add-on cartridge-type fusible link. I keep maxifuse blocks here all the time for making these repairs.

I'm posting another version of the wiring diagram for the Scout II version that is applicable to your issue here. These attachments are jpegs so you can use your photo-viewer software and enlarge or crop as need be. Circuit #16 is the "run" feed through the resistor wire for the ignition coil. Circuit #14 is the wire run from the bat terminal on the starter relay to the bulkhead connector, that is a the 10gauge run with the fusible link. A fusible link is always four wire gauges smaller than the wire run it protects, so a replacement fusible link would be a segment of 14 gauge material about 8" long.

A maxifuse used to replace that fusible link should be a 50amp rating. Do not use an auto-reset circuit breaker for that protection!

If the po virus involved a secondary "start button" then that is a shitball way of making things "run". Yes, that is done on some offroad only rigs. And some folks like that for some kinda redneck anti-theft device (it actually makes theft even easier!). So no tellin' what kinda mess ya got ya need to straighten out.

The actual oem replacment ignition switch for these rigs is dirt cheap! And the parts to repair the crappy saginaw locking mechanism are also readily available as is a replacement lock assembly. But to overhaul all of the switch-related stuff you will need a decent "lock plate depressor" tool once the steering wheel is removed. Those tools are also dirt cheap and available at nearly any parts house.

 

[traveler]

Ok...my card # is 1234-5678-9101-1213

just a little joke...he he he.

No really micheal...its good of you to help those who wish they had your brain.

If I were a vulcan I'd do the mind-weld thing and download your brain.

So I think I get it.
That smaller red fusabe wire is super important....so if it fails like it did...at the bulkhead connection...and I bypass that..I need to get size 14 stranded and put it back so if I get an overload..it will fail instead of a fire.

Right?

And that extremely thin stainless wire going to the alternator is so small for a reason...and must stay put...fix...down replace with larger...

Right?

I have yet to find the starter relay...but that should be obvious...I just haven't looked hard enough..it starts so I figured it was ok...maybe it is.

My Dad says thank you too...we are indebt.

Take care
john

 

[Michael Mayben]

Do not use a piece of 14 gauge regular wire!!!!! Do use a piece of 14 gauge fusible link!

I know this is kinda confusing, but fusible link material is completely different from regular primary wire in it's design and construction. But it's sized the same.

More details in this thread:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/electrical-tech/4820-couple-easy-questions.html

The pic attached is for a "tutorial" I did regarding the fusible link subject. It shows pre-packaged links (in this case for generic Ford applications) along with corresponding pieces of bulk material from spools I have.

In the harness for the alternator, yes there is another "resistor wire", the single strand item, apiece of ni-chrome. That is used in the circuit to provide a load to the field so that the alternator can "turn on". Vehicles that have only a warning light for a charging indicator use the warning light to provide the same function. All IH vehicles equipped with the various versions of the delcotron alternator never used "idiot lights" because they were set up with a true ammeter to monitor the system charging function.

The "starter relay" is actually the solenoid mounted on the top of the starter itself. I used the term "relay" incorrectly here since I had relays on the brain at the time, though the solenoid is a relay. Some vehicles (not ihc) did/do use a separate "relay" incorporated into the starting system. Sorry for confusing you!

The bat terminal on the starter solenoid is simply used as a convenience "junction" point for distributing battery current to other circuits.

I wish I could delete all the useless shit in my hard drive brain...that way I could find stuff more easily. I promise , you do not wanna download what's there now as it creates random lockups throughout the day when trying to access. Forced restarts ain't pretty.

 

[traveler]

Well micheal....we "thought" we had it all done...
When for a test drive today....everything was fine....then bam...a wire we didn't see melted to the fire wall.

It was alone....so it didn't fuse other wires..and I traced it back to the ignition switch.

Now I looked at your pictures...but can't find this one for sure.

On the part of the switch closest to the driver...are 2 connectors...each single connectors...
One is larger than all the rest in the tongue....its white....and it was the one that melted.

Now I have to tell you - this morning I re-attached another white wire to teh starter that the po had folded back and put a button in....in stead.

I took out the button...reattached the right wire....and...it did operate the starter...correctly. But...with it connected....the ignition wire was dead.

It is only when I remove that correct wire....to engage the starter...that the ignition dies.

Now that aluminum box on the right of the steering column is the starter relay...I believe..but cause it clicks when I engage the spring action for the starter...on the key.

So now I am thinkng....that it has something to do with why the po...put in a button instead of fixing the wiring correctly.

I know that is a mouthful...and maybe is confusing....but we are back to putting in the button...just to get her running....

Everything...I mean everything....else...is perfect.

I honestly will pay you for your advice.
John

 

[traveler]

Sorry...forgot wire # I 18....goes to a connector...but after? Mine appears to have been simply hanging....