Electrical System In A Box

[Michael Mayben]

Quite often I help folks recover dead dawgs and IH junkiron. Stuff that ain't run in years. Sometimes the crap is not drivable as such, but we need to move it into a position to load onna trailer, etc.

Before attempting ta crank a motor that's been sitting, I always perform the procedure outlined and discussed in this thread, post #3:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.co...I-4-sv-engine-non-oiling-rocker-assembly.html

Once I'm certain the motor is pre-oiled, then comes the issue of the fuel and electrical systems. I have a collection of various carburetors (fresh ones) that can be used to swap on depending upon the engine and application needed. And a stand-alone fuel delivery system with dedicated electric fuel pump that the rig can be run from so I don't have to deal with the common fuel system deterioration issues on this stuff.

That leaves us with needing a functional electrical system, just enough to fire off the motor, no matter which engine we're dealing with, I-4, six-banger, or sv.

So I've whipped up an electrical system inna box that serves that purpose. A self-contained starting and ignition system (no battery charging capability at this point).

This shot is an example of the big picture...the electrical box, a typical "make run" carb for a 4v manifold, and a built distributor for an sv. If the rig I'm working with is an I-4, then the appropriate carb is substituted along with another distributor that is ready to run. The Holley electric fuel pump is shown as an example of how it interfaces with the electrical supply. I have several other types of electric fuel pumps (and regulators) that can be used when/if needed.

All this can be powered either from a jumper battery or the primary vehicle battery if it's serviceable, using the large alligator clamps. Both vehicle battery cables are disconnected and set aside. Then the engine starter is connected with a cable down to the battery stud on the vehicle starter solenoid, with a jumper attached to the "s" terminal, the vehicle battery positive cable is removed and insulated from ground if the vehicle battery is gonna be used. All other oem electrical connections are also removed from the starter solenoid and insulated from ground.

The ground cable from the box is then connected to the engine block. Depending upon which generator or alternator is mounted to the engine, all electrical connections are removed from the unit.

The replacement distributor (points unit) is installed and connected to the box through a dedicated circuit, and the electric choke b+ feed is also connected to the box. If the electric fuel pump is going to be used, then it's also connected to the box and is operated from a dedicated on/off switch on it's own fused circuit.

 

[Michael Mayben]

Here's what's inside the box:

an ignition switch as used in IH fullsize stuff up thought eop for m/y 1973.

An aftermarket ignition coil with a primary resistance of 1.6ohms.

An aftermarket electrical distribution panel.

A "Ford-type" starter relay.

A switch for the electric fuel pump.

A feed for a carburetor electric choke.

A feed for points-trigger distributor.

A set of ballast resistors that can be jumpered in cascade fashion to supply whatever primary feed resistance needed for each engine/distributor type I'm using. This resistor set will provide either no resistance, 0.8 ohms, 1.6 ohms, 2.3 ohms, 3.1 ohms, or 3.9 ohms depending upon the jumper arrangement.

The entire system (except starter) is powered through a 40a maxifuse.

Once this system is tested in the next few days on a recently-built Ford fe/390 hotrod motor sitting inna f250 highboy rolling chassis sans body, I'll finish up dressing the wiring in a neater fashion. And I May add in a volt and ammeter combo with appropriate connections for a delco 10si alternator so that if need be, this system can be left under the vehicle hood and the vehicle driven if the alternator is functional.

When correctly installed, this system in a box has no physical connection to the vehicle electrical system at all. So po virus wiring, shitty bulkhead connectors, crappy battery, etc. Does not prevent engine run.

 

[Greg R]

Damn, that there's a great idea! In the refer world we use a similar box for testing and jump start'in compressors. We call them compressor "annies", short for analyzers. Same kinda scenario, just yours has a little more to it.

So, would the alternator or generator be disconnected so as to have no output?

depending upon which generator or alternator is mounted to the engine, all electrical connections are removed from the unit.

I guess that's what you meant.
Very nice workmanship too.

 

[Robert Kenney]

That is a cool rig mm. I particularly like the mallory dizzy. Dual point?.

 

[Michael Mayben]

So, would the alternator or generator be disconnected so as to have no output?

I guess that's what you meant.
Very nice workmanship too.

Yep...if the alternator is a 10si, then pull the output wire run along with the connector, it'll just spin so the belt runs still function.

If it's a dcgen, pull the connectors also.

If it's an external reg alternator, likewise, just pull all wiring terminals. And the vehicle battery is totally isolated from the vehicle electrical system, that's the whole idea...eliminate any potential electrical system problems, rat chews, etc.

And anytime I need to use stuff like this I carry additional components, different coils, etc.

If I decide to enable this for battery charging, that will only be for a 10si as that is the most common stuff I normally encounter. An ignition system only will run total loss off a decent battery for 3+ hours, an ignition system pulls less than 4amps at full tilt, the fuel pump less than 5 amps, and the electric choke about 1.5amps.

 

[Michael Mayben]

that is a cool rig mm. I particularly like the mallory dizzy. Dual point?.

Yep, check posts #9 and 10 in this thread:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/ignition-tech/642-ihc-vehicle-distributor-identification.html

That one has no vacuum advance, mechanical only and has less than an hour runtime on it! And my goto auto parts jobber locally has all mallory "dual point" parts hangin' on the wall! I want to convert that one to mag trigger. Mallory sez they must do that and to send it in for "repair". I wanna diy, but they won't sell me the parts!

Those mallory units are still available for IH stuff, a dual point, a unilite, and their version of a mag trigger. With and without vacuum advance. Only issue is, a new one does not include a distributor drive gear, ya gotta rob your old one and set the endplay! And...they still have both a dual point and a unilite for the I-4 stuff!

 

[Michael Mayben]

Yesterday was a debug session for the portable electrical system. And...we stuck the fe 390 Ford motor back in it's permanent home for the last time.

While Todd fabbed a beootiful exhaust system from scratch, I plumbed the motor in for a test fire and installed the electrics.

Had to shorten the battery cables to the box in order to git this real tight motor to rotate of the starter. And I'd neglected to ground the starter relay frame so naturally that didn't work! So after some scramblin' we got everything done and fired the bitch around 8:30p last nite!

What a motor! Sounds like a dam blown hemi now. Bitch cranked immediately once the carb bowls filled and sounds strong. It's got the perfect idle lope to go cruise the dairy queen or troll the wallyworld parking lot.

 

[Michael Mayben]

Here's a longer shot so ya can see how the starter cable hookup is made. A Ford starter does not have a solenoid mounted like a delco starter for an IH app, so the battery positive cable goes right to the motor terminal, those use an inertia-type starter drive and do not require a solenoid to shift the starter drive in and out of engagement.

Thus the earlier fords used a starter "relay" to switch current to the starter motor.

 

[Robert Kenney]

Does the binder university produce any videos? Preferably with sound mic'd well and no mufflers.




infact nothing aft of the collector.

 

[Michael Mayben]

does the binder university produce any videos? Preferably with sound mic'd well and no mufflers.




infact nothing aft of the collector.

Todd immediately leaped to the azzend and recorded the exhaust note on hiz cellphone! But it sounds like a dam 152 on the phone so that would be embarrassing to post!

My video cam is a hi-8, then I have to convert the analog tape to digital through a converter. So the sound comes up pretty bad!

But...we'll drop the collectors at the next work session and see what we can get!

I've now run it about two additional hours in four sessions and it dam shore shakes the shophouse real fine!!!

Sumbitch is an instant starter though!

Next up is to pop the body off the '66 f100 and plop it down on this chassis. That core support is just to hold up a radiator for fresh motor crank/break-in.

Now that I know the electric box works ok, I'll rig some two gauge battery cables on the input side that can attach to marine/rv battery terminations. Then add the voltmeter and ammeter to the mix for charging capability. That will be "switchable" and can be used for hooking into a 10si juicemaker.