"Early" T-all Rear Windermotor

Michael Mayben

IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
Ok folks, I postin' a backchannel dealybob here so our bubba drew can pick up this attached .pdf.

Email kain't handle the attachement and no doubt sumbody else arount here will need this shit in the future.

Drew's ride is a '67 or t-all (1200c 4x4?) being reconstituted after about 8 years of inop. We dun got the motor runnin' and oilin' (it had the classic stuck valve/broken push rod syndrome.

So drew got the bosch rear winder lift motor rebuilt up at philbin 'lectric and verified it runs frontwards and backwards off jumpers. But he dun forgot how to wire it back since he slept twice since doin' this a month ago...he's a dam pooternerd so whadya expect??? Makes dam nice websites though!

Here's the text of drew's original email to me (sumbitch calls me about five times a day whinin' 'bout sumthin'):

"Mike.

I am still having trouble figuring this out. There are 4 wires on the
bosch window motor. I originally thought a set for each switch, the
keyed switch and the toggle switch up front.

Turquoise wire
red wire
black wire
yellow wire

after trial and error...
Turquoise and red spin the motor one way
turquoise and yellow spin the motor the other way

not sure what the hell black does.

Any thoughts?"


Here's the response ta drew that I kain't send with attachment:

"the black wire should be the ground circuit, that would connect through the safety switch if present.

Here's a scan of the section of the manual that pertains to your version of the t'all. However, when those manuals were reprinted, the section pertaining to the electrical description regarding the tailgate window was left out...binder books has known about that for years.

The last two pages are a scan of a service bulletin regarding the change in wiring on the "d" t-all ('69 and later), but does contain a schematic that should be close to what you have. I have no other info about this stuff in any of the service lit I have.

Did you take pics of the wiring and motor mounting before rip in??? Obviously not!!!!

Mm""


Here's a scan of the appropriate service manual segment for the rear winder....problem is...these repop manuals don't have the electrical information needed for diagnosis, that was overlooked when they were repoped.

So...the last two pages of this attachment include a scan of a service bulletin issued during the transition form the "c" series to the squarebody "d" series (m/y '69).

Ok, that didn't work..gotta break this into two .pdf files, one for the service manual guapo, the other for the bulletin

no luck again...looks like this is gonna be in six separate sections...gonna take awhile.

Page one of six...

Nope...attachemnts don't wanna post, I'll try agin after a reboot.
 

Attachments

  • T'all Rear Winder 1.PDF
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Page two of the service manual segment...
 

Attachments

  • Windermotor page2.PDF
    1.5 MB · Views: 512
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Yes, I didn't take a picture of it before I disconnected it because it wasn't connected to anything to begin with.:nono:

thanks for the service bulletin. That is good information I couldn't find in the service manuals. That is a nice treasure right there.

Well so I don't have to call you up with my belly achin I would really like to see a wire diagram with IH numbers to bosch color codes. But since I know the black is the ground to safety switch (looks like the po took my swtich out and just ground that to the body)

IH wire numbers:
220 b
222 b
223 b

bosch motor wires
turquise
red
yellow
black - ground through safety switch

I suspect 220 to turquoise. I will test it when I can and if I solve it before anyone else can I will post up the wire diagram.
 
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We ain't done, a wiring diagram will be the last post of this series.

Page 4 now...

Won't go through...I'll try again tomorrow.
 

Attachments

  • Windermotor page4.PDF
    1.3 MB · Views: 578
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Page 5, first page of the service letter...
 

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  • Windermotor page5.PDF
    1.3 MB · Views: 616
Page 6, last page of the bulletin/letter, this is the schematic for the "upgrade" for the '69 and later but I believe the color code is same...

Credit for the copy of service letter slm69-30 goes lyle wiese who has the original in his collection of IH-related service literature. This item has helped many folks in the past with this same issue...including lyle on the rambleall!
 

Attachments

  • Windermotor page6.PDF
    1.5 MB · Views: 531
Michael, thanks for posting this stuff up. Here are my observations...

The service bulletin claims this is for a d series new bosch motor. Looking at the schematic it certainly is different than the motor on my 67 c series. The schematic accounts for only three wires with black going to ground through a switch.

My motor has 4 wires and after playing around with them a bit through trial and error this seems to be the case for a 67 bosch motor.

Turquoise to switched ground. (safety).
Yellow to 222b
red to 223b

this leaves a black wire from the motor and wire 220b. They don't work together.

With this set up all switches work and run the window up and down. I still don't know what to do about the two wires. Calling philbin lead nowhere.
 
I just can't help ya with a schematic for that rig since I got none. If ya could find an original, unmolested manual set (looseleaf), it might have what ta need, but I don't know who has that item.

I don't remember if that t'all that mikee r. Is buildin' is a barn door version or a dropgate. If it's dropgate, then check with him 'cause I'm sure his is scruud up to!
 
Some "observations" / info, but no real help -- fwiw

I have an original 72 - 73 t/a service manual that I purchased from IH shortly after I got my t/a.

I have two bodies / cabs sections - x and ff:

both have an exploded view of the tailgate. Both have a "view" of the "pieces" (numbered) comprising the electric tailgate window mechanism, but no real wiring diagram (one does "show" three wires going to what I think is the motor - not sure the diagram is accurate, of course.).

The write up / description on maintaining the electric tailgate mechanism has no pictures at all -- in either section -- as opposed to the info michael posted.

I "dredged" all the separate pieces of the manual out of the file cabinet ( I removed all the sections of the service manual that did not pertain to my t/a to make it a "little lighter".) and I found no separate section on the electric tailgate motor.
 
I am late in this thread, maybe it'll still help. The 4 wire to the motor, red & black are for magnetic field hot & ground; yellow and green go to the armeture, up or down. So that when the switch makes contact the red come hot along with yellow or green. To confuse the issue the 4 wires going to this mess do not include a ground, they include an unswitched 12v for the rear tailgate switch and the ground is provided locally. So that the harness from up front will have a constant 12v, a switched 12v for the field and 2 other switched 12v for up or down. No ground.
The harness in the one I'm working on had 2 red & 2 white going towards the motor and changed colers to blue at the gate to a connector at the motor and fed the rear switch. I think it is a dealer add-on and was made from whatever.
Hope this helps, I have problem with the motor but will post on seperate thread. Oj
 
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