!@#$%^&* E10 fuel

MarkO

Member
I was running my weedeater last week before our big 4th of July bbq/party/potluck and just about didn't live to tell the tale.

I am not sure exactly what happened but the weed eater caught on fire due to fuel leaking all over the exhaust.

I am thinking the e10 has dissolved something in the fuel system.

Isn't it nice of our government to allow us the opportunity to stimulate the economy by having to purchase new equipement to replace that which was destroyed by the mandated ethanol fuel?
 
Storing them in the heat with dry lines also kills the cheap fuel line they have... Like leaving them in a shed or your garage.... Doh! :mad2: so where do you store them? And do you keep them full of fuel and running all winter??
 
I found a hole in the fuel line of my chainsaw this weekend. I don't know what caused it, but the line is not hard or brittle, and it gets used at least once a month (usually by my neighbor).
 
I was talking to my buddy at the lawnmower shop last week, and looking over his pile of rotted fuel line and carbs, from various lawn equipment. It's obvious the fuel today is dissolving rubber , plastic and aluminum.

He's making a living off of fuel system repairs alone.
Now thats a stimulus package:mad2:

there's a reason there is no ethanol in avgas.
 
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There is no "mandated" e10 in wa. The mandate we have in wa is for e2 as of dec 15th 08. However that doesn't mean that we don't have stations pumping e10, arco and now bp/arco has sold exclusively e10 in wa for over 15 years. Safeway at least in the seattle area did use the e2 mandate to switch to e10 and you will find it at other discount outlets like the no name stations and costco. The best bet to find the lowest e% is shell and chevron/texaco stations, however being relatively close to or May mean that even those stations May have e10 being supplied from the or refineries.

For small engines, and the little fuel that they consume it is easy enough to make your own pure gas out of fuel containing ethanol.
 
The "hole" or rot in power equipment fuel lines is epidemic, even amongst the materials that have supposedly been "re-engineered" for e10 exposure. Chainsaws/w-whackers, etc. Have a fuel pump scenario that varies, including pressurizing the fuel tank on some models using the two stroke motor crankcase pressure pulsation. If the slightest void develops in the line, the carbs cannot operate at all they do not have a "float bowl.

My local stihl outlet has tons of those "special" convoluted fuel tubes in stock now. When they rot, you have to "stretch" 'em out to be able to see the tiny flaw that is developed where the molding is thin. No telling how much money is being spent now in the timber industry to keep saws running...and this "clear" gasoline deal is bullshit as far as I can see, I have experienced the same "deterioration" on saws I repair that have run nothing but clear in 'em since new.

I had an epidemic of this same thing on four of seven chainsaws working here last March that I was whining about in another thread!

Rotten fuckin' e10 is creating the bulk of my work, for the last two weeks it's been constant inquiries regarding carb work just so folks can bring stuff to the bee! That has rotted in the last several months.

This alcohol content is corrosive to nearly all metals used in carburetion/fuel systems at the level/concentration being forced on us right now, it's not just dissolving the rubber stuff.

And you think this shit is not harmful to fuel injection components???? Try coming up with the cash to pay for a "non-warranty" fuel system service on a "modern vehicle....when ya have replace a $500 fuel pump (in tank), the filtration system, all injectors, and a whole batch of other shit, anything that "see" liquid e10. Ya know what the labor charge to replace the average electric in-tank fuel pump is????

The solution to the problem???

Turn out every member of congress in the next election cycles!!! They allowed the epa and others to create this problem while we all set back and did nothing about it.

You think it's a pita right now...wait until this time a year from now when every fuckin' industrial engine in the kuntry takes a dump simultaneously. The marine industry in this kuntry right now is being devastated by this fuckin' government gas shit. It's bad enough that all current industrial engines/outdoor power equipment has to meet fuckin' "California" emissions shit...and won't start first or tenth pull anymore without going through epa for "permission to launch", ya add in e10 and yawl just plan to let yore landscape return to it's natural state.

My advice...treat all power equipment fuel supplies with stabil "marine" formula. It's much more expensive than red, but it treats much more gallonage also! And...it's rated to combat the effects of alcohol that is ravaging the marine industry, the red is not effective regarding the alcohol shit.

E10 adds a whole new meaning to the concept of "throwaway" gasoline powered tools and equipment. And the sales of two-man crosscut saws are on the upswing as the timber industry tries to spend some obamabucks they ain't got yet but the iou is in the mail.
 
So, does this mean I should not drive my t/a to the bee and have it "contaminated" with oregon e10?

Though, I was in or the end of mar this year.

The pumps here (at least chevron) do not state e10. But, who knows what "magic" chemicals there are ion the gasoline. And, I have not had any problems ... Yet... Maybe, I am "lucky" because I only live about 8 miles from the refinery, so the stuff cannot deteriorate as much
 
so, does this mean I should not drive my t/a to the bee and have it "contaminated" with oregon e10?

Though, I was in or the end of mar this year.

The pumps here (at least chevron) do not state e10. But, who knows what "magic" chemicals there are ion the gasoline. And, I have not had any problems ... Yet... Maybe, I am "lucky" because I only live about 8 miles from the refinery, so the stuff cannot deteriorate as much

Where is here? While or is one of only 4 states currently mandating e10 there are many places where oxygenated fuel (e5.75) is required year round, CA for example (though their e10 mandate kicks in 1/1/10), or the epa mandates the seasonal use, such as many places in co.

Just because the pump isn't marked e10 or "contains up to 10% ethanol" or your state doesn't have an e% mandate doesn't mean you aren't getting ethanol. Like I noted in my previous post there are companies that sell e10 not because of a state mandate but to increase their profit margin or undercut others on price. Additionally some states require the labeling of ethanol content in excess of 1 or 2%, though not the exact%, other states prohibit listing if the fuel contains ethanol at all, and others don't have specific labeling laws applying to e%.

If you are coming from CA the risk of or e10 is low, it is unlikely that 1 or 2 tanks of higher e% is going to cause an immediate failure, the long term use of e5.75 would have already caused the problems. Now for someone coming from id getting a shot of e10 May cause immediate problems as water in excess of 1% will cause phase separation and the ethanol's solvent properties will dislodge any rust or varnish in the fuel tank plugging the filter in a matter of a few miles. To get it cleaned out May require replacing the filter with every tank for 3 or 4 tanks or in extreme cases dropping the tank for cleaning.
 
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Went down to kali last October with the beater draggin' the trailer. Had the carb dialed in finally ragged edge for max towability and fuel economy at a gross load of 11,500lbs.!

First fuckin' fillup across the border goin' down 395 I was forced to load up on fuckin' e10. Every fillup after that point in kali and returning to orygone two weeks later on I-5 and 97 was e10 as posted on the pumps...always!

So let's get some facts straight around here! Read the pump post!

And a week after my return...I lost another "new" black nitrophyl float in my own mixer...no one takes as much care with their own personal carbs as I do! So now only brass floats are used in anything I do. Lernt my lesson, that was a theory I wanted to test as I had a nitrophyl in the primary bowl and a brass in the secondary bowl.

Put a new brass float in a jar of e10 and cap it. Punch a small hole in the top so it can "breathe"...just like a carb has to breathe (vent). Two weeks later, the sumbitch will be a glossy camo-black color just like it's been painted with krylon. That is called corrosion.

Here's a pic of a new brass float in the primary bowl on my 80457s. That is the result of two weeks exposure to e10 with the rig in normal use. You can even see some actual surface deterioration if ya look close...call that "brass rust"??

The green line is a Holley gflt accel pump element designed to be used with methanol in race apps. Those cost about three times the price of the old "black" pump elements but are impervious to alcohol/e10...so far.

The reddish orange "pigtail" sticking up is the accel pump "umbrella" check, it's a silicone rubber material. Those are affected by e10 and are now turning to mush in long term exposure and sticking the check. I have one soaking inna "sealed tube "test now to see how long that takes.

Older Holley carbs don't use that umbrella, they have a steel ball bearing check retained by a tiny plated steel hanger. The ball is not being affected by e10, but the retainer is! It's crimped into the fuel bowl and is not replaceable!
 

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So at the farm store they sell barrels of gas for "antique" vehicles. Is that the old leaded regular or just minus the eth?
 
so at the farm store they sell barrels of gas for "antique" vehicles. Is that the old leaded regular or just minus the eth?

That's what is being marketed as "clear" drew. It's real gasoline with no alcohol content, for "off-road use only"

but so far I'm not impressed, I still see fuelrot in saws that have had nothing in 'em since new except clear and stihl premium oil.
 
Hmm, I thought the clear was what all these pro ball players were shoving in their ass. I guess I should pick up 5 gallons and go make me the big money hitting long balls for the all drug baseball league. :icon_scream:
 
I live in the san francisco bay area, el cerrito -- city just south of richmond where the chevron refinery is located (mm knows where).

Read the pump -- ok

I went to a chevron station in berkeley (because at "mine" I did not notice the tire air pump was out of order, so I let air out instead of putting it in -- how is that for reading signs?:sleep:) and

there was no writing on the pumps except something about sulphur in diesel and credit cards...

There was not even the usual prop 65 "the air you breathe will kill you" "disclaimer...

Maybe since it is less than e10, they do not have to post it (as eric van buren states CA is 5.75).

I know there is some posting about chemicals, etc on the pumps at my usual station. I will check when I fill up to start north tomorrow morning, but I will probably not remember by the time I get to the bee.

Do I get the last "laugh"?:dita:
 
I don't think there is such a thing as leaded gas as it used to be, even avgas is "low" lead.
Just an fyi. 100ll (low lead) av gas even though it is called low lead still has way more lead than leaded regular ever did. It does have less then the early av formulas. I noticed a big reduction the lead rocks that I had to pick out of the bottom plugs after the change.
 
Some facts about ethanol in gasoline. Here is a link to a map of the areas where the epa mandates oxygenated fuel in the winter time. This only means that the gasoline contains a minimum 2.7% oxygen content, doesn't specifically mandate ethanol but since they banned mbte the only approved oxygenate is ethanol. 5.75% meets that requirement, so by default the gas in those areas contain a minimum e5.75, doesn't mean they can't have up to e10 year round however.
http://www.ARB.CA.gov/fuels/gasoline/oxy/uswinter.pdf

Carb requires all fuel to be oxygenated year round, so again by default a min e5.75, but up to e10 is permitted.

Only 4 states minnesota, Missouri, hawaii and oregon currently have state mandates requiring e10. Missouri's law is a little unusual, it allows straight gas if the price of gasoline drops below that of e10, it also only applies to regular and mid grades premium is exempt. Oregon’s ethanol mandate does allow straight gasoline to be sold intended for limited uses such as that you have seen for "antique vehicles" and power equipment, marine and aviation use, but I sure can't find what they define as an "antique vehicle" in this case. In many states 25 years or older qualifies for antique/collector plates but does that apply to gasoline use? If it does all our IH's would certainly be qualified.
new oregon e10 mandate takes effect
bill offers relief from costly state ethanol mandate - the oregon catalyst
Missouri e10 mandate takes effect today; “transition already near complete”; joins minnesota and hawaii as only three e10-mandating states : biofuels digest - biofuels, biodiesel, ethanol, algae, jatropha, green gasoline, green diesel, an

California and florida, the last I heard, will join those states as of 1/1/10. Washington has a law that requires an average 2% ethanol content. Montana has an e10 mandate law on the books but it isn't triggered until 1 year after 40 million gallons of ethanol are produced per year in the state. Kansas, iowa, and louisiana also reportedly have ethanol mandates but I have been unable to find any definitive info on those states min e% or when they did/will take effect.

There is also the federal renewable fuels standard which mandates an ever increasing amount of ethanol be blended with the fuel supply. It doesn't specify how it is to be blended, if enough e85 was sold no other blends would be required to meet the rfs. Of course the epa non-attainment area winter oxygenated fuel rules would still apply until the standards are met. We did it in the seattle area and had that requirement lifted years ago.

However e10 is sold in many areas where it is not mandated by local laws simply because it increases oil company profits. "regular" e10 is produced with 84 "suboctane", "premium" e10 can be produced with 89 octane, increasing their gasoline yield per barrel and thus profit margin. Ethanol usually costs less than the gas it displaces it further increasing their profit margin. Since e10 results in lower mpg consumers will have to buy more, another increase in profit. Add in the federal fuel tax blender credit and the oil companies profit are increased even more. Also since ethanol is a strong solvent it negates the need for additional detergents to meet fuel detergent standards, another increase in profits to the oil company.
stop mandatory ethanol in oregon, the new reality of e10

To further confuse consumers the labeling laws vary by state. Indiana, kansas, kentucky, maryland, michigan, minnesota, Missouri, Nevada, new hampshire, new jersey, north carolina, ohio, and the district of columbia do not require labeling of ethanol content. Minnesota mandates all e10 so the point is moot, Missouri mandates e10 when it is cheaper than gas, allows straight premium all the time, and doesn't prevent stations from selling straight premium from labeling it "contains no ethanol".

In the other states they do require labeling such as "contains up to 10% ethanol" which doesn't tell exactly how much ethanol is in the fuel. It could be as little as 1.5% or as high as 10%. Some retailers clearly post "e10" in states that don't mandate it while others have a "contains 10% ethanol" variation of the smaller sticker often very low on the pump where it is not necessarily noticed. In other cases the label May state "this pump dispenses oxygenated fuel".

So unless you live in one of the states that mandates e10, the pump is clearly labeled e10, contains 10%, or contains no ethanol what is coming out of the pump is questionable, particularly those states w/o labeling laws. The only way to know for sure what you are getting is to test a sample.

For small engines the other option still available is to head to walmart or a camping/outdoor store for some coleman white gas. Sure you could use it in your IH as well, but not very practical nor cheap.
 
Now I am just pissed. Is there a place at the epa where I can send all my broken "killed by ethanol" junk so they can dispose of it properly? How about lawyers producing the glovebox ethanol percentage test kit so they can jump on in the class action on all these suckerhead gas stations that put water in their whiskey, more than the law allows.
 
I see alot of people typing plenty on here. How many of you have sent a letter to your representative? Posting on an anonymous bulletin boards is like chewing gum in a rocking chair, it's doing something, but gets you no where. I am not saying writing you representative is going to get you anywhere either, but it couldn't hurt.
 
I see alot of people typing plenty on here. How many of you have sent a letter to your representative? Posting on an anonymous bulletin boards is like chewing gum in a rocking chair, it's doing something, but gets you no where. I am not saying writing you representative is going to get you anywhere either, but it couldn't hurt.

If these people are anything like myself, venting here just makes me feel better about things. Yes I could could type letters to my representative or I can just bitch about it here and have fun with it and then let it go. :lol:
 
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