Distributor Conversion?

Scoutboy74

Scoutboy74

Moderator
This is going to be long winded. You've been warned. Here's the sitcheeyeashun:
1965 Scout 80 with 152 and Holley straight points diz.
I was trying to verify and re-gap the points. I encountered difficulty in getting the gap to stay put after tightening down the adjustment screw. I removed the points and discovered the plastic breaker plate had cracks around both the brass threaded inserts where the points attach. I figured the cracks were allowing just enough spring action to defeat any gap settings. After predictable failures to locate a replacement plastic breaker plate, I decided to improvise. I had an IH app curved points dizzy out of a '73 304. I removed the all metal breaker plate and points from it and swapped them in to the 4-popper unit. My thinking was this would be a serviceable way of eliminating the worn plastic part. The first issue I ran into was the stud for the vac advance arm located in the "cw" position was not in the proper location. A trip to the hardware store for 72 cents worth of parts allowed me to fashion a home-spun stud which I mounted in the hole labeled "ccw". I verified the advance can was functional and installed it. After filing out the mounting holes on the curved points to allow the contact pad to reach the smaller diameter 4 cyl lobe, I carefully set the gap to .014, buttoned everything up and turned on the juice. I did not have access to a dwell meter, nor did I have my timing light, so I made minor timing adjustments by ear with the engine running and the vac advance line plugged off. The engine seemed to be running very well throughout the rpm range. I shut it down, tightened the dizzy hold down bolt and connected the steel vac advance line. Refired the engine and noticed it was running very poorly with the vac advance line connected, so I plugged it off and sure enough, performance improved. So after all that build up, here's the questions. Did I pull a :nono: by installing parts from an 8 cylinder dizzy into a 4? Is there a rotational difference between the two? The only thing I can figure is I've introduced a vacuum retard instead of an advance, but it's just a theory until I can prove/disprove with a timing light. Is there a source for the plastic straight points breaker plate? Tia for any help in this matter.
 
The "ccw" position on the breaker plate is for a "counter clockwise" rotation distributor such as might be used inna marine engine application (twin engine setup). There are/were other applications of counter-clockwise engine rotation stuff also, forklifts, tugs, etc.

The vacuum advance mounted on the opposite side of the distributor also, look at it kinda like a "mirror image" viewed from the top/outside.

The Ford/autolite/motorcraft versions of the Holley distributors were the same deal only the entire bodies were cast as mirror images since the vacuum cans mounted to dedicated bosses on the body.

Those Holley "straight point" (both I-4 and sv) distributors are a real problem to work with as they were not used in any significant numbers in IH motor vehicle apps, mostly used in tractors and utility apps. And what you described is the same thing I've seen wrong with the few others I've fooked with.

At one time, Mike Ismail down at IH only in Lancaster, CA had some of that straight point stuff. I know Jeff at ihon has points for 'em, but I don't remember seeing any complete distributors there for parts donors. I brought all the good stuff Jeff had up here to use for our reconditioning efforts.

I have two Holley "normal" (curved point) 4popper distributors here now. I'll check 'em out tomorrow for usability (I know they are decent cores). I got one delco 4pop unit but the only way I'll give it up is in an even swap for hooty!

Mikee dimock will be here on the 26th for an engine build for his 196 that's shit the cam bearings. I built him a fresh delco last month, so I know he's got at least one decent curved point Holley. If he wants to give one up, contact him.

Or...I'll rig ya up a fresh Holley here and send it down. Ya ain"t gittin' the delco! Mike fiock/mr. Scout has been tryin' ta snake that one off me for a year!

Quit wastin' time and sailor jerry workin' with unworkable.

Oh yeah...don't forgit. A Holley 4popper distributor uses a dwell factor of 50>52*. A delco 4popper uses 72*!!! Big difference that will eat yore lunch if ya don't pay tension!

Is this the cambo "joint venture" s80 or john's??

If ya show for that IHSTO training session here at binder u. On the 28th, were gonna be runnin' a demo of my 196 on the scope so ya can see how fuckin' up ignition stuff fucks up everthang! And I'll have all the various distributors (and carbs) laid out for tucheefeelee.

Fer now, jes' leave the vacuum disconnected from the distributor, ya don't need no vacuum advance for putzin' around tha yard! In fact, onna shitball s80 ya can do away with vacuum advance and never know it!
 
I lied to ya. Both of the 4pop Holley distributors here are straight point units just like the one ya butched.

I'm dropping a nice/un-damaged breaker plate in the mail to ya this afternoon, be careful with it and put that fookin' distributor back original! This one has been sterilized and lubed with speshul sauce, do not scruu with it!!!

Neither of the vacuum advance cans for those units are any good, so they have been marked accordingly and placed in the box that is going to the folks that recondition 'em for us. The actuator arm for the straight point vacuum advance unit is somewhat different that the one for curved point distributors, so they do not interchange.

Now ya owe my azz even more than before! I'm puttin' a mechanic's lien on hooty.
 
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Thanks Mike. John's the one what owes you. I'm thinkin' you'd rather have a mostly virginal '65 80 than a majorly fooked over frankenscout that's been gittin' rode hard and put away muddy on a reglar basis. Sherm is purdeer than hooty any day of the week. Trust me, yawl want yer lien on that one.
 
Yawl should see the envelope maybe tomorrow??

So at this point sherm has received a heart/lung transplant from the 196 in momma's dawghawler, and now gittin' a pacemaker from the dawgpile too.

Next up john's gonna put inna request for the whole dam motor??? If momma ever finds anutha j.o.b. So she can fund her new stroker 152 I guess the 196 can be used as a loaner for sherm if needed!
 
I know for a fact johnny boy tosses and turns at night dreaming of the day when he can stuff a 196 into sherm. I got my tin in the wind lukin' fer yer care pakij. Muchos greyshus Mike. We'll put shermie's spark controller back tuh orijnul. I'm still of the opinion my bastardized cross-breed deal could be made to work well with enuff playin' arount. I can't be the first person who has thought about that or tried to do it. That's just me though. I'm a thinkin' outside the box kinda dude.
 
I guess I shoulda just sent yawl the whole dam sparkmaker cleaned out and ready ta drop in, then we culd play with yore redneckenjuneer deal and see if it works.

But I'd rather use that straight point core for a convert to a pertronix and do away with all the problems to begin with!

Don't toss away that broke straight point advance/breaker plate, save it for me as I got some idears I need to play with on it.

If yawl come up for that training session, ya kin see a rebuilt 196 in progress onna stand, mikee dimock is gonna be buildin' hiz motor here prior to that session with an engine kit sourced from ihon, the kit will be shipped here and received tomorrow evening.
 
Not yet Mike. I dunno where the fuck it is. I've pretty much given up on it. I hope it shows up eventually. I re-gapped the make shift curved points in his diz to achieve the correct dwell angle. I had to max the adjustment out all the way to get it. I set his base timing to 10 degrees of advance. That's damn near as retarded as it get's too! You couldn't get to 0 degrees if you wanted to. Vacuum actuation is still incorrect, but the engine seems happy with just mechanical advance. John will be taking it for a test spin tomorrow afternoon to see how it behaves under load.
 
Ok, we gotta go fuck with the county scruuhaids tomorrow morning early. Michael d. Is here now jerkin' the motor outta his pos.

When we git home tomorrow evening, (and hopin' they don't lock my ass up for tellin' deputydawg and the judge to find a dark place to put their "stuff"), I'll rip the plate out of the other distributor and send it down.

Ain't never lost nuthin' in the usmale...but wouldn't ya know when I did it's a fuckin' priceless piece of plastic? And what's the chances of one scruhaid like me havin' a pair of these crapballs??

I sent this inna reglar padded envelope, I send carbs in priority packaging all over the kuntry ever week and never had any problemas.
 
It's a haidscratcher fer sure. What torques me off is there's no way to go about tracking it down. It'll either show up here or back there or it's lost forever. The fact that you had two of them doesn't surprise me much. What does floor me is that you're actually going to try this again. Is there no end to your generosity? We won't be makin' it up for the festivities. The fwb's has got a campin' trip planned for this weekend. We need tuh howl at the moon with sailor jerry and slosh a little mud on the farm equipment. Otherwise we'd just come up and get the dam thang from ya. I know of guy who has a 4 popper delco. He didn't even know what the fuck it was until I id'd it for him. I wish I hadn't done that now. He May not let go of it real easy since he knows it's speshul, but I need to ask anyway. If we could score that, you can have your priceless plastic back.
 
I heard that an airmail drop wuz made over medforjauana taday???? A chunka antique plastic fell out tha door and landed on sherm's hood where that mt bottlea jerry was settin'
???
 
Yeah I'm thinkin' mebbee if'n the yewknighted staytz posthole circus woulda laid off the sailor jerry a bit, that parcel mighta akshulee showed up in less than ten daze. You dun gud there papa mayben. I already broke the news tuh johnboy that hez jes caretakin' sherm til' the carbking can git raht wit the guvmint and prove hez a sixth genyrashun leegul ayleeyun with all the rahts garunteed az sech.
 
Finally got arount to reverting john's sherm back tuh original configgeerashun today using the very nice piece of unobtainium plastic courtesy of papa mayben. Sherm's back tuh purrin' like a kitten with fully functional vac advance. Thanks so much Mike. Shermeez gunna like livin' at binder u evenshulee.
 
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