Classic heat soak..... Iv tried everything.... pics

littlebuck23

littlebuck23

Member
Here is the issue

engine cold-----crank nice and fast

engine hot-
crank slow
draws lots of current (evident by heavy charge rate after
start)

iv replaced the starter twice. Last time was about 4 weeks ago.

Iv read mr Maybens thread about this issue and installed a external starter relay.

Have nice new batt cables. Nice clean connections.

Re did the grounds long time ago (engine to frame to batt to body to fender)

the heat shield is installed around the starter.

Ignition switch replaced chasing different problem last year.

Firewall connectors all replaced.

I have another starter on the way. I am installing it Thursday nite.

The only thing im left with is that I need to install more heat shielding somehow or I have another bunk starter.

Pics

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Did you put a jumper, on the solenoid, on the starter? If not, two solenoids is only hurting you. You didn't say anything about your battery. What size is it (cca)? How old, etc.? Does it help if you jump start it when hot?
 
I second the jumper question -- I use a flat peice of thick(ish) copper to jumper the two posts together (a piece of copper pipe from the hardware store hammered flat, holes drilled...). A small wire will not be enough.
 
Yep did the jumper. It's actually visible in the pic of the starter.

It is still cranking really good if the engine hasn't been ran. Even if it sits for a few days. That's why I don't think it's the battery. I'll stick a hydrometer down the cells to be sure. The battery was replaced about 6 mo before I bought the thing so that makes it about 3 years old.
 
littlebuck23 said:
yep did the jumper. It's actually visible in the pic of the starter.

It is still cranking really good if the engine hasn't been ran. Even if it sits for a few days. That's why I don't think it's the battery. I'll stick a hydrometer down the cells to be sure. The battery was replaced about 6 mo before I bought the thing so that makes it about 3 years old.
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If the jumper is the little white wire - you need a bigger jumper.
 
dkminors said:
I think the 10 gauge should be fine. That is what I used and haven't had any problems. Mm recommended that as well here.
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Im also of the opinion that a #10 should be plenty big. Id expect a siliniod to draw about 4 or 5 amps in normal working condition, in a half broken state the current could be more. A 18g wire is good for 10 ampers , so a # 10 should do it but

I installed. # 8 jumper just cause I can and for good measure with the new starter this evening. Seems to work thus far...much better than the on removed. The silinoid is different. It's a little shorter. I don't think that the silinoid is to blame here. I think that starter motor was all done being usefull. . we shall see how it goes after my morning commute

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Another thought here. Have you checked the output of your alternator? Do you have a voltage gauge? If it's not starting after being driven, your battery could be draining while you drive. Then it recovers after sitting a while. You should be getting 14.5 volts, ideally, and about 13.5 minimum. You could also have your battery load tested. Do you know how to do a voltage drop test on you cables and wires?
 
jschmitz said:
another thought here. Have you checked the output of your alternator? Do you have a voltage gauge? If it's not starting after being driven, your battery could be draining while you drive. Then it recovers after sitting a while. You should be getting 14.5 volts, ideally, and about 13.5 minimum. You could also have your battery load tested. Do you know how to do a voltage drop test on you cables and wires?
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The alternator is about 3 years old too. It seems to put out plenty of current as shown on the amp meeter. The amp meter goes back down to zero within 15 seconds of a long cranking start, indicating that the battery isn't totally kaput or it would have to charge for a lot longer. It still could be a bad battery.

I do have a volt meter installed as well. It shows 13 to 14 during normal operation. (car running). And seems to be regulated well.

I suppose I could unhook the starter, throw the starter switch and compare voltage readings on both sides of that circuit to get a drop.

Is that what you had in mind?

This starting thing is especially a problem when the kids are on board. I have year and a half twin boys. They don't like it too much when the car doesn't start and the ac doesn't run.

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The voltage drop test is done under load. It's much easier with two people. Take a volt meter and put the leads on both ends (positive on one end, negative on the other) of the conductor to be tested. Static it will, of course, read zero volts. If it has any resistance, it will show a voltage from end to end while under load. So, put the leads on both ends of your positive cable, for example, and have someone else try to start the engine. If you see any significant voltage the cable is bad. I've seen like new battery cables loaded with corrosion inside the insulation. New doesn't always mean good. I hope that all makes sense.
 
That's an easey test. I'll give it a try.

I forgot to mention that the starter I removed last nite was hotter than a pistol. It had been sitting for 2 hours. I stated the car and drove it to my brothers place then removed it. Only a 1/2 mile trip. It was hot hot hot.

No problem after I got to work this morning. Cranked up nice and fast.
 
Craig said:
was the tin shroud removed for picture taking?
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Isn't that it, just aft of the exhaust manifold to pipe connection?

Am I missing another shroud? Is there an additional one that goes between the stater motor and engine block?
 
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Does the exhaust pipe run close to the underside of the starter? Could a heat shield pan be attached to the exhaust pipe? Maybe move the heat shield a bit so it doesn't sit against the manifold and transfer the heat into the shield.
 

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bill bennett said:
does the exhaust pipe run close to the underside of the starter? Could a heat shield pan be attached to the exhaust pipe? Maybe move the heat shield a bit so it doesn't sit against the manifold and transfer the heat into the shield.
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X2

in the picture, it looks like the heat shield is touching the exhaust pipe flange. It also appears to be very close to the top of the starter. You definitely don't want any contact. Ideally a heat shield should be attached to the starter, not the exhaust pipe. Otherwise your conducting heat directly into the shield and moving the heat closer to the starter.
 
Another thing to check is your air/fuel mixture in your engine. A lean running engine will skyrocket exhaust temperatures. Pull a spark plug and see what it looks like. If it's snow white, you might need to jet up your carb or do other tune-up work.
 
littlebuck23 said:
isn't that it, just aft of the exhaust manifold to pipe connection?

Am I missing another shroud? Is there an additional one that goes between the stater motor and engine block?
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Wow, my eyes are falling me

not sure why I did not see that it right there. Lol

yours shield looks fine.
 
Another test that is handy is an inductive ammeter that tells you how much the starter is drawing when it is activated.

If it pegs the ammeter you know the starter is no longer any good.

When it gets warm it will make the situation worse--in other words a starter that works when cold and won't when things warm up.
 
The pipe doesn't come close to the starter. It heads downhill from the junction.

I'm gonna bend that shield out of the way. I m sure it's getting heated unceccicarrily.

Looking at the plugs is a great idea. The egt is directly effected in huge amounts by mixture. I've set my idle mixture properly and the carb is a brand spanking new Holley 2300 as of about 6 months ago ish.

My next door neighbor does commercial sales at a local auto parts store. ( great guy,he gives me a hearty discount) this most recent starter he obtained from a different overhaul shop and I've not had any further heat soak scince Thursday of last week.
He says he's been getting failures fire often these days.
 
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