Hi guys. Bought a 69 800a with a 304 that hadn't been running for a while. I am new no automotive but smart and mechanically inclined. I feel like I could fix anything if I know what is wrong and how to repair it. The problem I am having is diagnosing the problem. When I got the truck it had a bad case of the po virus. When I pulled the valve covers I found that one of the welded rocker arms on each side had been replaced with a boat style and the shafts were badly grooved. I dropped the pan and didn't find any metal so I am hoping the engine is still ok. I fixed the rocker assemblies and followed mm's "bringing old iron back to life". Everything seems to flow like it should now. The resister ignition circuit had been bypassed despite the coil being clearly labeled IH and the starter solenoid was bad so I put in a remote solenoid and restored the stock ignition set up (although there are still some mystery wires in the engine compartment/behind the dash). I fixed the pcv system. Both lines coming from the valve covers went through newer (not the original rebuildable type) pcv valves to vacuum tree on back of intake manifold (now one breaths in and one breaths out). I have replaced the fuel system (tank, lines, pump, filter). The distributor cap looks new but the wires were old so I replaced them and the plugs. I put the motor on tdc #8 and aligned the cap to the #8 wire. I checked that the wires were on the cap in the proper firing order and checked for spark. I am getting spark at the plugs. The carburetor is a bit of a mystery to me and May be my problem but even when I use starter fluid or pour gas in the top I can't get the engine to catch. It sounds strange too. As it starts trying to fire the rhythm changes but it seems too fast to me (hard to describe). I'm sure a knowledgable mechanic could diagnose the problem based on that sound but I don't know what it means. The starter turns it over well enough but it won't catch and fire on it's own. I'm at a loss and not sure what to check next. Could the vacuum system be the problem? It's definitely wrong and I haven't found a good diagram of how it should be for this engine/carb setup. It was also mostly unhooked when I got the vehicle. The wiper vac line was not attached properly (now capped as I am going electric). Most of the control cables were off. Several vacuum lines were capped. The only one that looks even remotely right is the line to the vac advance on the distributor (which works and holds vacuum, I checked). I know this is a long post and if no one responds I'll try to condense it. Please help. I am hell bent to get this truck right and have no shortage of time or energy right now. I am prepared to get the engine rebuilt or get a new one if that's what it takes but I don't know what to do next. I am short on knowledge and not for lack of forum scouring. As you can tell from all I've done so far I have been researching on-line quite a bit. Thanks
Can't get her to run
- Thread starter Ottoresto
- Start date
Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
First, welcome to the forms.
There are lots of answers here. This should be straight forward if you can answer a couple of questions for us.
1) how did you find tdc compression stroke on #8?
2) have you verified a strong spark. Should jump with a blue/white color. Also should be able to jump 3/16-1/4 inch while cranking.
3) with the ignition switched to the run position and the points closed, you should have about 6-8 volts on the + coil terminal. Warning don't leave the ignition on for more time than required to read the voltage.
4) you mention that it tries to start. That means it is firing, there should be a bit of smoke out the tail pipe at the same time verifying it is actually burning fuel.
There are lots of answers here. This should be straight forward if you can answer a couple of questions for us.
1) how did you find tdc compression stroke on #8?
2) have you verified a strong spark. Should jump with a blue/white color. Also should be able to jump 3/16-1/4 inch while cranking.
3) with the ignition switched to the run position and the points closed, you should have about 6-8 volts on the + coil terminal. Warning don't leave the ignition on for more time than required to read the voltage.
4) you mention that it tries to start. That means it is firing, there should be a bit of smoke out the tail pipe at the same time verifying it is actually burning fuel.
Thank you for the welcome.
1) I found tdc by pulling #8 plug and cranking engine while helper felt for compression then stopped and aligned timing Mark with a breaker bar on the crank pulley nut.
2) just rechecked spark. It arcs the 1/4" but appears (to my helper) to be orange in color, not blue/white.
3) just checked + coil. It reads 6.3 at first but steadily drops over 5-10 seconds to the mid 5's
4) this goes back to the strange sounding thing. It tries to start but just barely or in a way that sounds strange to me. I did smell exhaust fumes once but only very faintly so whatever the problem is it's not really allowing for decent combustion.
Could it be really bad compression? I don't have a tester but I've been looking at them and they are only $30 or so.
1) I found tdc by pulling #8 plug and cranking engine while helper felt for compression then stopped and aligned timing Mark with a breaker bar on the crank pulley nut.
2) just rechecked spark. It arcs the 1/4" but appears (to my helper) to be orange in color, not blue/white.
3) just checked + coil. It reads 6.3 at first but steadily drops over 5-10 seconds to the mid 5's
4) this goes back to the strange sounding thing. It tries to start but just barely or in a way that sounds strange to me. I did smell exhaust fumes once but only very faintly so whatever the problem is it's not really allowing for decent combustion.
Could it be really bad compression? I don't have a tester but I've been looking at them and they are only $30 or so.
Yeah man, new cap & rotor, new wires, new plugs, slid the feeler in and gaped her myself .019.
I did a compression test last night and started with #8. It wouldn't even make 60psi. Wish I could say I was surprised. Oh well.
The motor sat for many years and then the po "got it running" again (probably the quick and dirty way) to drive it over a mountain pass then let it sit for a couple more years outside. The low compression coupled with the bad rocker assembly leads me to believe that I need a complete rebuild or a new motor.
I called a local machine shop that knows Scout motors and was quoted between $2200 and $2600 for a complete rebuild 6 weeks out. Does this sound reasonable to you?
I see that there are also motors available on line for about the same price although, shipping makes it more. Any recommendations on the cheapest way to proceed without compromising the integrity and longevity of the 304?
I did a compression test last night and started with #8. It wouldn't even make 60psi. Wish I could say I was surprised. Oh well.
The motor sat for many years and then the po "got it running" again (probably the quick and dirty way) to drive it over a mountain pass then let it sit for a couple more years outside. The low compression coupled with the bad rocker assembly leads me to believe that I need a complete rebuild or a new motor.
I called a local machine shop that knows Scout motors and was quoted between $2200 and $2600 for a complete rebuild 6 weeks out. Does this sound reasonable to you?
I see that there are also motors available on line for about the same price although, shipping makes it more. Any recommendations on the cheapest way to proceed without compromising the integrity and longevity of the 304?
Orange/yellow means dead or nearly dead condenser on points style systems. My '71 loadstar came from a farmer who had 17 "mechanics" look at it and he gave up. I had it running in 15 minutes because of the condenser from my '73 Jeep j4000 spare parts kit (which uses a delco dist). I mix a little quicksilver or similar 2 stroke oil with gas in the carb to help the valves not be sticky on fire up..