cam specs?

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As I've been "trained" by dave the gear man (who was there on the line when these motors were being machined and assembled, both oem and when performing "factory rebuild" at the factory branch)...

All moving parts were "classed" after being produced as to weight. This is sop in the production side for any manufacturer. As in "classed" for common weight tolerances. Then the parts were kept together for assembly as a set into each engine.

Any parts that were "out of range" were set aside for "rework" (not scrapped). That meant adjusting the weights in various manners to bring into usable tolerance.

The parts sets were then assembled into a completed engine with all designated rotating components and balanced in a process that took approximately 15 seconds to spin up, then 15 seconds to "correct" with automated machinery (not a "robot"), and another 15 seconds to verify the balance correction. If the motor passed inspection, it moved on through the assembly process, if it did not it was kicked offline for rework at some later point.

When these engines were later remanned at a "factory branch", all engine components were kept together as sets as the engine went through the process. Most machine work was done in-house...but if rods/pistons, etc. Were replaced (and in nearly all cases pistons were replaced as oversize), then the replacement pistons were selected from bulk as "weight sets" and again remained together through the process.

If a particular engine had to be extensively repaired outside of the "normal" reman process, then the branch folks selected the replacement parts, sorted for weight, and supplied the sublet machine shop with Bob weight data so that the rotating assembly could be balanced for the replacement parts. And core engines that were returned to the factory branch for reman always included all rotating parts, flywheels, hubs/balancers, etc.

Some factory branches had full machine shop capability in-house, even for dynamic balance operations, some did not and had to sublet as needed.

There is no doubt in my mind that IH factory branches paid far more attention to engine reman detail than any production rebuilder. When the factory branch programs ended around 1985 or so, then ihc contracted with a few national companies to follow these same practices when they intro'd the "renew" line of reman products through the dealer network.
 
as I've been "trained" by dave the gear man (who was there on the line when these motors were being machined and assembled, both oem and when performing "factory rebuild" at the factory branch)...

All moving parts were "classed" after being produced as to weight. This is sop in the production side for any manufacturer. As in "classed" for common weight tolerances. Then the parts were kept together for assembly as a set into each engine.

Any parts that were "out of range" were set aside for "rework" (not scrapped). That meant adjusting the weights in various manners to bring into usable tolerance.

The parts sets were then assembled into a completed engine with all designated rotating components and balanced in a process that took approximately 15 seconds to spin up, then 15 seconds to "correct" with automated machinery (not a "robot"), and another 15 seconds to verify the balance correction. If the motor passed inspection, it moved on through the assembly process, if it did not it was kicked offline for rework at some later point.

When these engines were later remanned at a "factory branch", all engine components were kept together as sets as the engine went through the process. Most machine work was done in-house...but if rods/pistons, etc. Were replaced (and in nearly all cases pistons were replaced as oversize), then the replacement pistons were selected from bulk as "weight sets" and again remained together through the process.

If a particular engine had to be extensively repaired outside of the "normal" reman process, then the branch folks selected the replacement parts, sorted for weight, and supplied the sublet machine shop with Bob weight data so that the rotating assembly could be balanced for the replacement parts. And core engines that were returned to the factory branch for reman always included all rotating parts, flywheels, hubs/balancers, etc.

Some factory branches had full machine shop capability in-house, even for dynamic balance operations, some did not and had to sublet as needed.

There is no doubt in my mind that IH factory branches paid far more attention to engine reman detail than any production rebuilder. When the factory branch programs ended around 1985 or so, then ihc contracted with a few national companies to follow these same practices when they intro'd the "renew" line of reman products through the dealer network.

Yes, I agree with this when talking about an IH approved rebuild or factory virgin build.

No, I do not agree this has any real validity with the engine being ddiscussed in this thread. There is just no way to know it's history and thus the component weights. I will not speculate or suggest any plan of action other that to have it re-balanced or risk a poorly balanced assembly.

Rk
 
That was my point exactly Robert!

The "factory" and the "factory branches" had methodology and parts in place to do the right thang. Today, that's just not possible! We're just lucky to be able to find a set of eight oversize pistons in stock spread over five warehouses and they all turn out to be the same brand and design (remember the conversation regarding the sil-vo-lites hyperu's for tim??). We don't have one hundred on the shelf to grade/sort into a set of eight mating items by weight and diameter!

Today...we must plan that every engine, whether a runner or a core has been previously butchered in some manner by a po or by a commercial shop that May have had worse work habits than any po. A perfect example, this Ford fe we've been struggling with that was "just rebuilt" but had a crankshaft so plugged with bearing debris that it hadn't lubed in years! And...it had the oem bearings in it from 1963! Same goes for all the peripheral stuff, rocker assemblies, ignition, carburetion, etc. This shit is 35+ years old, there ain't no verified virgins out there (except for maybe lou dinwiddy???)!

Same for these sv motors that have had flywheels, clutches, flex plates, crank hubs, etc. Boneyarded and swapped around for ages! Or had one rod/piston assembly replaced with parts from two different motors and then shakes like a bobblehead when spoolin' up!

If you are gonna build a motor...and build a motor correctly, it gets balanced! And if inspection shows the internal components have been butched, then they must get sum love in some manner before sending out for a balance job.

This same exact discussion is how dave and I met. John tabor and I were having a heated discussion about 345 balance after he had performed a clutch replacement for a customer. John's only replaced prolly 200+ clutches and flywheels in Scout II in his lifetime. But this one ate him...three trys and it had only got worse!

Dave was sittin' in the booth behind us at vida cafe and asked if he could offer his "opinion"! Over the next three hours the sumbitch trained us old farts regarding balancing IH guapo....and now ya know the rest of the story!

So what did john do??? Last I heard, he had the entire replacement clutch/flywheel setup neutral balanced and that solved the problem.
 
A 35 year old motor cannot be associated to any factory build specs so please "do not" try to convince some one that the factory specs or rod weights are relevant here without even seeing the parts. That is just blowing smoke and irresponsible.

True, if the parts in question where used and not straight from the factory.

I just bought nos 216114r21 rods, they had a little surface rust so, the machinist May hone em after cleaning em. But 360 for 8 isnt bad. Balancing is somthing else I havent considered. I was going to install the pistons myself, but do you have an idea of how much more balancing would run? I dont plan on running it very high alot, mostly shifts. I was used to doing 70 mph top speed before and I probably wont push it too much further than that. But 4800 rpm sustained sounds awsome. I can see how it would need to be balanced.

But the parts in question are "new", from the factory, never been in an engine. And might of come in a box that might look something like this.

picture.php


That is how I base my "irresponsible, smoke blowing" facts.
 
Here we go again.

I recommended first off to have the ra balanced so. Period. Anything else is pure arguing.

What you don't seem to understand is the fact that the rest of the engine is fully unknown. The crank way very well have been balanced to who the f**k knows. So why state the rods are fine if simply installed because thew are a matched oe set. What were the old rods weights that the crank May have been bobbed to? Maybe you have some special powers that you are not telling us.

Until you actually weigh the parts you don't know anything to base even the slightest point that it May be fine if not balanced.

"have it balanced" or risk an imbalance issue.

That is the only responsible statement to make.


This thread is now locked because nothing further can be said that will further help 78ih with his build.
 
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