Ok I have a question. I just built a custom tank for my 800. It's made out of 1/8 and 3/16 hr steel. It has welded in baffles. Do I need to put some type of coating inside the tank? I have used the por-15 products extensivly. But never the tank coating stuff. I will post pics tommorow of what I did in the building of it.
Best Fuel Tank Cleaning/Coating System
- Thread starter Carl Wiese
- Start date
Craig
Active member
Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
Wow, you built one tough tank!! Never have a problem rusting through.
Your inquiry regarding coating is a valid point. All mass production fuel tanks are galvanized or otherwise treated inside and out to prevent the formation of surface rust. This will continue to slulf off and eventually plug your fuel filters. Condensation and the alkygazz(e-10 e-15) which will absorb water are going to be problems soon after you place the tank into service.
Companies exist who surface treat steel for just this situation. I don't know where you are but you can search your general area for a close one. Heavy phosphate conversion and or many types of galvanizing will be sufficient to prevent rust. I favor the later to any processes.
If you have a problem finding a company post back and I will check my industrial directories for one in your area.
Robert
Your inquiry regarding coating is a valid point. All mass production fuel tanks are galvanized or otherwise treated inside and out to prevent the formation of surface rust. This will continue to slulf off and eventually plug your fuel filters. Condensation and the alkygazz(e-10 e-15) which will absorb water are going to be problems soon after you place the tank into service.
Companies exist who surface treat steel for just this situation. I don't know where you are but you can search your general area for a close one. Heavy phosphate conversion and or many types of galvanizing will be sufficient to prevent rust. I favor the later to any processes.
If you have a problem finding a company post back and I will check my industrial directories for one in your area.
Robert
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
Before I'd use any "pour-in/slosh around" coatings in any fuel tank today, I wanna see proof of performance of cured material conducted on test containers running e10 in the long term.
Marketing hype written ten years ago (by the por folks and many other suppliers such as "kreeme" and kbs) is one thing. Today's fuel is not what we were running this time a year ago! Today's fuel contact is what matters and how the various products hold up.
Oem fuel tanks (steel of course) use a type of pre-coated sheet metal known as "terne-plate".
gemcor - home page
Marketing hype written ten years ago (by the por folks and many other suppliers such as "kreeme" and kbs) is one thing. Today's fuel is not what we were running this time a year ago! Today's fuel contact is what matters and how the various products hold up.
Oem fuel tanks (steel of course) use a type of pre-coated sheet metal known as "terne-plate".
gemcor - home page
Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
Michael
just to clarify. The metal treatments I wrote about are not rubber coatings. They are the same or similar to the original tin treatments as gemcor applies to their raw materials.
Rk
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
I knew you didn't mean "rubber" coatings! The previous and on-going posts in this thread do discuss various "pour-in" treatments.
All the aftermarket treatments systems are basically the same...some are epoxy-base, some urethane-base. Only a true metallic surface treatment "plating" process such as you referenced, or the "terne-plate" deal is a surefire anti-corrosion preventative.
If the shop-fabbed tank that is currently under discussion is properly cleaned out once completed, I'd rather have it left in it's natural state if I could not have a true "plating" process done.
Keep the fuel treated (with sta-bil) in the tank, keep the tank condensation/moisture free through proper maintenance and I see no corrosion issue (internally). The 30+ gallon tank referenced in the "other" fuel tank thread I did about two months ago is not treated internally in any manner. The owner insisted that I treat it with the por product he bought to do so. I told him if he wanted it treated, he could take the whole rig to his place and diy...I'd not be responsible or have anything to do with the stuff until I saw data proving it's suitability when exposed to e10.
http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/basic-tech-questions/1161-fuel-tank-thread.html
Again...I'm not claiming the pour-in stuff won't be suitable if properly cured...but based upon extensive experience with all this crap since 1971 which can fail when exposed to pog (plain old gasoline) of various formulations, I want to see long term test results that back up their claims based on exposure to e10 today! Not marketing hype from "back when".
Yeah I have a rollover valve in the vent as well just to make sure that it cant leak. But I would love to hear any thoughts on tank design, things I May not have heard/thought about. Mine is a suction feed design not a gravity feed. The pickup tube is welded in, with a support welded in at the lower end of the pickup. 5/16" fuel line going to a -6 weld on an fitting, 3/8 npt vent fitting w/rollover protection. 2" filler neck. I have yet to mount it but I'm thinking of stitch welding 2" angle to the perimeter, then putting 1/2 rubber between the frame and the angle. Sliding 1x3 solid bar inside the frame tapped to 1/2" for the mounting bolts.
Btw so far I havent found anyone that can plate the tank
if you could take a look and see if you can find someone that can do it I would appreciate it. I live near chico, CA if that helps.
Btw so far I havent found anyone that can plate the tank
if you could take a look and see if you can find someone that can do it I would appreciate it. I live near chico, CA if that helps.
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
I would not consider "galvinizing". There can be all kinds of issues with that process when in continuous contact with petroleum-base products, and who knows about contact with e10???
Galvinizing involves the electro-disposition of a zinc-Rich material.
There was a point in time where steel marine fuel tanks in oem applications were "galvinized" after fabrication. But if any welding slag/flux was present (it was impossible to totally clean a 50>100 gallon tank internally), then the galvinized coating had multiple voids in it. Once fuel was introduced and any moisture was present (all fuel supplies have a degree of moisture, especially because of condensation), then rust would quickly form, along with a major "slime" accumulation (actually a form of algae grows in gasoline with moisture). The that would really make a mess that could only be removed by sand blasting, that of course removes the galvinizing material.
And ya never use diesel inna galvinized fuel storage system! Yes, I know we're talkin' gasoline (or alkeegazz), but we all need to be aware of this since diesel conversions are often "discussed" around here.
Galvinizing involves the electro-disposition of a zinc-Rich material.
There was a point in time where steel marine fuel tanks in oem applications were "galvinized" after fabrication. But if any welding slag/flux was present (it was impossible to totally clean a 50>100 gallon tank internally), then the galvinized coating had multiple voids in it. Once fuel was introduced and any moisture was present (all fuel supplies have a degree of moisture, especially because of condensation), then rust would quickly form, along with a major "slime" accumulation (actually a form of algae grows in gasoline with moisture). The that would really make a mess that could only be removed by sand blasting, that of course removes the galvinizing material.
And ya never use diesel inna galvinized fuel storage system! Yes, I know we're talkin' gasoline (or alkeegazz), but we all need to be aware of this since diesel conversions are often "discussed" around here.
Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
Moore quality galvanizing l. P.
3001 falcon drive
p o box 420
madera, CA 93639-0420 (559) 673-2822
(800) 821-0526
fax (559) 674-8331
hot dip galvanizing like you get on the metal trash cans and buckets. I talked to these guys and they can do a boat trailer. As long as the tank has a hole it it to allow the material in and out you should be ok. I assume you have a access cover or sender hole in it. If so they will take care of it. After galvanizing don't weld on it solder to attach anything further. But you probably know that.
3001 falcon drive
p o box 420
madera, CA 93639-0420 (559) 673-2822
(800) 821-0526
fax (559) 674-8331
hot dip galvanizing like you get on the metal trash cans and buckets. I talked to these guys and they can do a boat trailer. As long as the tank has a hole it it to allow the material in and out you should be ok. I assume you have a access cover or sender hole in it. If so they will take care of it. After galvanizing don't weld on it solder to attach anything further. But you probably know that.
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
Here's an example of what happens when a tank "sealant" product makes the entire situation much worse as I alluded to earlier:
this is a fuel tank selector valve as used on pickalls over the years. I rebuild these continuously and the reconditioned items are available only through ihon.
This is a core I did yesterday...this one is completely packed with "kreem" brand fuel tank sealant. What you see is hardened material that sloughed off along with all the rustrot that was embedded in the shit.
No doubt that tank was not properly prepped and treated...but I've seen the same thing happen many times over the years when we attempted to use the shit on new motorcycle fuel tanks or those that had been chemically treated internally and were "as new".
The only way to properly service a fuel storage system in this condition is remove and replace all associated plumbing with new or reconditioned components, and have the tank mechanically cleaned in a very "noxious" manner by a pro if ya expect any so-called "tank sealant" to adhere over the long run.
And that only takes care of the tank, not the fuel pump, plumbing, carb, etc.
Of the five selector valves I pulled apart yesterday, two of 'em looked like this, the other three were just full of rot. But all of 'em are certainly usable once they are sterilized and reconditioned.
this is a fuel tank selector valve as used on pickalls over the years. I rebuild these continuously and the reconditioned items are available only through ihon.
This is a core I did yesterday...this one is completely packed with "kreem" brand fuel tank sealant. What you see is hardened material that sloughed off along with all the rustrot that was embedded in the shit.
No doubt that tank was not properly prepped and treated...but I've seen the same thing happen many times over the years when we attempted to use the shit on new motorcycle fuel tanks or those that had been chemically treated internally and were "as new".
The only way to properly service a fuel storage system in this condition is remove and replace all associated plumbing with new or reconditioned components, and have the tank mechanically cleaned in a very "noxious" manner by a pro if ya expect any so-called "tank sealant" to adhere over the long run.
And that only takes care of the tank, not the fuel pump, plumbing, carb, etc.
Of the five selector valves I pulled apart yesterday, two of 'em looked like this, the other three were just full of rot. But all of 'em are certainly usable once they are sterilized and reconditioned.
