Automatic Transmission Oil

Craig

Craig

Active member
Cut and paste from transmission thread.

swepco said:
I'd just like to add the fact that the swepco 714-20 atf is a great product to use in those trannies..... In fact you can use it as a replacement for all dexron, most mercon, and all chrysler specifications including the atf+4.

It provides smoother, yet more positive shifting to help reduce heat build up and has a higher additive package than anything else on the market. Transmissions typically run cooler, even without add - on transmission coolers.

I've supplied customers for practically any type of application, including from toyota to cat haul trucks, as well as drag car racing.

Jeff also stocks this item for his customers.

Dick
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I pickup 3 gals of this oil from Jeff.

I was skeered to mix this with other atf. Are you running this in your camey?

I see it compatible. I guess you need a machine to replace all the atf
 
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I do not know of a "machine" that can get the atf out of the bottom half of a torque converter (at installed in vehicle).

So, one would hope that the atf fluid is "compatible" -- I am sure that dick can speak to that...

My at experience is limited (powerglide in a corvair) -- the manual (corvair) states the capacity is 12 pints "dry" -- 6 pints if you drain the atf (from the pan).

I assume other ats are not that different....
 
Craig & Robert

I'll reply to both of you since it is one subject.

Craig, thanks for purchasing the swepco 714 from Jeff, I'm sure you will find it quite satisfactory. The swepco product is compatible with all of the oils I have listed, however it is beneficial to get as much of the old oil out of the system. You should keep in mind that probably 2/3rds of the capacity of an automatic transmission system (including the cooler & the torque converter) does not get drained when you merely pull the pan, make your adjustments, change the filter and re-fill the pan again.

You are both correct when stating that it should be done by machine. The best way I have found to do this is to take it, and your replacement oil to a shop who has a transmission flushing machine. However, you are not going to just do a flush, you are going to drop the pan, change the filter, etc. The following steps should be taken to correctly get as much out of the system as possible when servicing automatic transmissions:
1) drop the pan, change the filter.
2) replace the pan.
3) put a fresh gallon of oil in through the dipstick tube
4) remove the lines from the cooler*
5) hook in the flushing machine filled with the appropriate amount of oil needed to fill back to capacity. (I'm not sure of the capacity of those trannies, but Jeff or michael maybean could probably chime in on that)

* an alternate way, although messy, can be done without using a flushing machine. It takes two people to do it right (safely)
1) take a 5 gal bucket and Mark in gallon increments lines on the inside of the bucket.
2) insert the cooler line coming out of the transmission (preferrably after the cooler) into the bucket.
3) start up the engine with the transmission in neutral, it will pump the atf out of the torque converter first. And hopefully, it will "hit the bucket" you placed the cooler line in.
4) with one person at the ignition switch, the other person should be pouring in fresh atf through the dipstick tube. (it will pump out faster than you can pour it in)
5) as soon as the oil hits the first hash Mark on the bucket, tell the person at the ignition switch to turn off the engine, and continue pouring the gallon of oil you have left into the fill.
6) repeat #5 as many times as required until you get clean oil (you will notice a color change) coming out of the line in the bucket.

Note: most shops will charge you around $125.00 to hook up to their flush machine, drop the pan and change the filter, so if you can deal with the mess with diy, you will be $125.00 ahead.

Although you will still have some residual oil in the transmission, it will be as close as you can get to getting it all out.

Craig..... As far as compatibility is concerned, you can use the swepco 714 as a replacement for those transmissions which call for dexron, mercon and chrysler (including atf+4). You should not Use it in cvt (constant velocity transmissions) as it is too slippery. Our (2nd) cars have been toyotas since 1990, I have used it in 1990, 1994 and 2000 camrys, but on our newest one, it is very low mileage and still has the factory oil in it. (it's the wife's car, and is babied)

Robert...... Powerglide in a corvair, eh?.....now that brings back some old memories! Was it a spyder?

Thanks again,
dick
 
No, the spyder (62 - 64) was the model where the engine had a turbocharger. They all had 4 speeds. A turbocharged engine was offered in 65 - 66 also.

My corvair mechanic (who loved turbochagers and liked to experiment) did "put together" a turbo engine coupled to the 2 speed corvair powerglide in the 1980's as one of his experiments. It worked "ok", but really not that well as the 2 speed pg could not really "run" the turbo effectively (too much rpm drop when it shifted to drive, I think).

The pgs were used on the carbureuted versions of the engines.

He never wanted to drain the torque converter (I do not know / remember why.). He used a plastic plug / cap to "plug" the torque converter if he took one out.
 
Robert,

the very minute I hit the "send" button, I remembered that the spyders were only available with a 4 speed tranny - thanks for confirming that for me! One of my cousins had a later model corvair convertible which was turboed, as I recall, it was a pretty fast car.

Did you know that the corvair became very unpopular after the comedian ernie kovacs died in a crash on a wet street when he lost control of the car?..... That eventually led to GM's discontinuance of the vehicle.

Funny how I can remember stuff from that many years ago, and can't remember where I put my glasses the night before now!

Also, the full-size powerglide 2 speed trannies are still very popular now in the race world.....they are (of course modified) and used in a lot of drag cars, as well as stock-car division race cars calling for automatics and are usually run without torque converters. I've got customers in both venues who use the 714 atf in them.

Dick
 
I am sure 714 atf would work fine in a p/g (or any at for that matter).

The 392 in my t/a "likes" the 20w-50 306 -- the oil pressure gauge is "behaving better".

Re the demise of the corvair:

there are probably a couple factors: the publicity around ernie kovacs May be one.

There was ralph nader's suit against GM -- and the resultant ("self-agrandizing") book, corvair unsafe at any speed -- the start of "liability law".

There was the 1965 mustang -- and GM's response with the camaro.

There was the "looming" smog legislation... No way GM was going to spend the money on the corvair like porshe did.

Imo, the corvair lasted as long as it did (thru limited production in 1969) because the man (ed cole) who was in charge of developing the corvair was the ceo of GM in the middle / late 60's....
 
Robert,

thanks for the "plug" on the 306 - 20w50 engine oil! You, as well as many others are finding it to be a great product!

Thanks for the trivia on the corvair, I had forgotten about ralph nader's suit, but was aware of the smog issue, the mustang and the camaros.

It's amazing what you learn on the ihon forum!

Dick
 
I would not recommend having any transmission flushed. I actually had it done one time and 3 weeks later was at the transmission shop getting a rebuild. The transmission guy told me when you have one flushed it actually ends up pushing all the leftover bad particles of metal shavings sludge ect right up into the tranny and can cause major transmission failure. The best way is alot more time consuming but assures you dont end up putting all of that into the small areas where it has nowhere else to go.
 
Hey hillbilly,

thanks for your post regarding "flushing transmissions."

actually, I was really surprised more of the readers of this thread didn't have the same input you expressed because this has been a major issue with both sides arguing pro and con on the subject.

I'll back off a little with this subject and issue the caveat that if you do not know the condition of the tranny, when it was last serviced, or if you are having some transmission "issues" which would indicate a rebuild is necessary, it might Be best not to flush the system for the reasons you mentioned.

However, on the other hand, if you have been servicing the tranny on a regular basis, I stand behind the original recommendation for the simple reason being that if you just change the oil in the pan, the very second you put the new oil in and start the engine, it is being contaminated with the old oil. Since the quality of the atfs on the market can vary tremendously, the old oil can be seriously degraded, or still be reasonably good.....it's a crap shoot without having the used oil analyzed spectographically, which would show the wear metal content as well as the oxidation of the oil.

When considering having the tranny flushed, a lot of people will go "cheap" and not drop the pan and change the filter, and will just run a new oil through the system.....this, in my opinion can be harmful and possibly create a serious problem, such as the one you mentioned.

It's real messy when you are laying on the floor and pulling the pan full of oil (if it doesn't have a drain plug) without spilling it all over yourself and the floor of your garage, but it is a necessary part of the service. Since quite a few of you are diyers, I can't think of anyone who looks forward to this maintenance procedure unless you have a warped sense of humor!

Automatic transmissions are probably one of the most overlooked components in any vehicle, and they require maintenance on a regular schedule, just as your engine does with engine oil. I have found over the years that a lot of people are guilty of neglect in this area because of the labor intensity involved. It is truly a case of "pay me now, or pay me later."

dick floryanowich
swepco
 
hillbilly38 said:
I would not recommend having any transmission flushed. I actually had it done one time and 3 weeks later was at the transmission shop getting a rebuild. The transmission guy told me when you have one flushed it actually ends up pushing all the leftover bad particles of metal shavings sludge ect right up into the tranny and can cause major transmission failure. The best way is alot more time consuming but assures you dont end up putting all of that into the small areas where it has nowhere else to go.
Click to expand...

I will second that recommendation. I used to teach transmissions at sequoia institute (now part of wyotech). There is just too many metal particles and friction material bits waiting to disperse themselves through a tranny when you flush it. This is a good way to kill a ferd c3 or c4 valve body.

That is also the reason you never re-use a torque converter no matter how new with a fresh tranny build. Particularly if the tranny went sour after being built just prior to the current build. They are just too full of cr@p to risk it. The other issue is that you just can't get enough crap out of a converter without taking it apart. We cut apart a running converter out of a high mileage 318/904 combo and it held almost 3 cups of grit. :blush2:

the cooler in the radiator, any external coolers and the cooler lines should be flushed with solvent and high pressure air before hooking up the cooler lines to your fresh tranny. A lot of shops skip this, including the shop I worked for, breaking down trannies for parts, that's no longer there. Can't imagine why ... :rolleyes5:

also, an older tranny that still works but hasn't been serviced in 100k+ miles will (most likely) die if you service it. The detergents in fresh atf will break loose all the built-up crud inside the converter, killing your tranny in short order. My mother had a '77 corolla that went 125k w/o servicing. Her mechanic talked her into a service and it went about another week before it died. The pan had about 2 cups of grit in it when I rebuilt it. Had to change all the steels (plus a lot of other parts) because they were blue/black and warped from the heat. She knew something was wrong when it would only go 40 wide open! :icon_twisted:

just throwing in my 0.02 usd.

Ray
 
I drain and fill the tranny on each engine oil change. So I get about 3 qt out each time on my cars (not counting the Scout) the filter was change once at about 20,000 miles. 80,000 now. So far so good. I figured this way the tranny fluid gets slowly replaced over time. At about 25,000 I had the dealer flush the tranny. No issues to report. Wait 10 years and then service it always seems to cause issue:icon_gonk: I'm thinking of having it flushed again?? Now I wonder?
 
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